Why did Germany lose WW2?

[udaka]

I think <save private Ryan > is a excellent war movie. I already read it for two times.


Before the US troops landing the Omaha beach, why the US fleet didn't use 450mm GUN blow up the fortress and the firepower post.the commander of US send infantry bash the Germanic on the beach? and be shoot down like a slaughter?

 

[udaka]

The second question,why the German army like use Wooden grenades .
In my opinion, also the Chinese army use a lot of wooden grenades fight against Japan, Because China lack of steel at that time. The German lack of steel too?


The ally of west and Japanese use steel grenades in second war 2. The merit of steel grenades is can produce more fragment , kill enemy more effective in the battle! The shortage is more expensive than wooden grenades.

 

[udaka]

The equipment of US soldiers (M1919A4(7.62mm) machine guns) in the movie.

the equipment of Germen military men ( MG42 machine guns) in this movie.



Some date look from internet resource:
the M1919A4 :

Rate of fire: 400-500 rounds / min
Muzzle velocity: 860M / s
Effective range: 1000M

the MG42:

Theoretical rate of fire : 1200-1500 rounds / min
Muzzle velocity - 755 m / s
Effective range - 800 m


from the date, the MG42 win the M1919A4 completely.

 

[brinktk]

Guns aren't always accurate, they would need a direct hit to do any damage to the pillboxes. Also, those big shells have a big blast radius which they would likely hit their own troops if they targeted the beachhead.

Wooden handled grenades are offensive grenades. They have a thin steel lining to minimize fragmentation because they are relying on the blast effect to make the enemy either dazed or seeking cover. They are designed to be thrown in front of their throwers so as soon as the grenades detonate, their throwers can quickly assault the area where the grenades blew up without killing the guys who threw them. Fragmentation grenades are defensive in nature, they are usually employed as a means to defend a line rather than to assault a line. It was a difference in doctrine, that's why they had different types.

 

[MontyB]

The Germans did have a "metal" grenade during WW2 it was called the Model 39 Eihandgranate which was a "smooth" casing,

In 1944 it was up graded and given a scored casing to produce better fragmentation.

 

[udaka]

From personally, I didn't like the Hilter. But I very agreeable with a passage speech he said.



"I stood in front of a nation, a nation was moaning in humiliation. I want to tell you, this world there is one thing more important than life, that is dignity! That is freedom!

We were humiliation by others, even the smallest people trample us, we only can shouted and protests, such a person is no honour! ! We should let artillery trembling our enemy! We should crush their dignity and their life!
I want to see , you are seventy million slaves or seventy million unyielding Germanic people! --- Hitler

 

[udaka]

I look for some material from Internet, look for the original of Germanic and their relationship with other European .

Germanic features: blond and blues eyes

In theory,the people who had blond are decendant of Germanic

Anglo - Saxon tribes is a West Germanic people, "England" means "Anglo-place."
As a result, English and German are related closely, if you studied the language of English and German will know. Everything is derived from the Germanic invade the British Isles

Germans are Aryan race, language is a Germanic language of Indo-European family, Germanic people do not call themselves Germans. In their long history, after the great national migration, Germanic evolved Scandinavian nation, England, Frisian and German, and later these people evolved Dutch, Swiss Germans,many white in Canada, USA, Australia and South Africa. In Austria, there are many Germanic descent.

 

[udaka]

The British, Canadian ,Austrian and some part American on this forum ,do you admid you has the blood of Germanic?

 

[lljadw]

:lol:

He has nothing to do,thus,he is wasting his time (and ours) by posting rubbish).Well,everyone has right on a hobby .

 

[BritinBritain]

From personally, I didn't like the Hilter. But I very agreeable with a passage speech he said.



"I stood in front of a nation, a nation was moaning in humiliation. I want to tell you, this world there is one thing more important than life, that is dignity! That is freedom!

We were humiliation by others, even the smallest people trample us, we only can shouted and protests, such a person is no honour! ! We should let artillery trembling our enemy! We should crush their dignity and their life!
I want to see , you are seventy million slaves or seventy million unyielding Germanic people! --- Hitler

Freedom? The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, also known as the June Fourth Incident in Chinese, were student-led popular demonstrations in Beijing which took place in the spring of 1989 and received broad support from city residents, exposing deep splits within China's political leadership. The protests were forcibly suppressed by hardline leaders who ordered the military to enforce martial law in the country's capital. The crackdown that initiated on June 3–4 became known as the Tiananmen Square Massacre or the June 4 Massacre as troops with assault rifles and tanks inflicted thousands of casualties on unarmed civilians trying to block the military’s advance on Tiananmen Square in the heart of Beijing, which student demonstrators had occupied for seven weeks. The scale of military mobilization and the resulting bloodshed were unprecedented in the history of Beijing, a city with a rich tradition of popular protests in the 20th century.

The Chinese government condemned the protests as a "counterrevolutionary riot", and has prohibited all forms of discussion or remembrance of the events since. Due to the lack of information from China, many aspects of the events remain unknown or unconfirmed. Estimates of the death toll range from several hundred to the thousands.

Chinese invasion of Tibet.

If thats freedom my bum is a kipper.

 

[udaka]

OH, damn it , a white racist like BritinAfrica always jump up bash me,

BritinAfrica， you are a fcuking white racist ,I had no interesting quarrel with you.:horsie:

Freedom? The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, also known as the June Fourth Incident in Chinese, were student-led popular demonstrations in Beijing which took place in the spring of 1989 and received broad support from city residents, exposing deep splits within China's political leadership. The protests were forcibly suppressed by hardline leaders who ordered the military to enforce martial law in the country's capital. The crackdown that initiated on June 3–4 became known as the Tiananmen Square Massacre or the June 4 Massacre as troops with assault rifles and tanks inflicted thousands of casualties on unarmed civilians trying to block the military’s advance on Tiananmen Square in the heart of Beijing, which student demonstrators had occupied for seven weeks. The scale of military mobilization and the resulting bloodshed were unprecedented in the history of Beijing, a city with a rich tradition of popular protests in the 20th century.

The Chinese government condemned the protests as a "counterrevolutionary riot", and has prohibited all forms of discussion or remembrance of the events since. Due to the lack of information from China, many aspects of the events remain unknown or unconfirmed. Estimates of the death toll range from several hundred to the thousands.

Chinese invasion of Tibet.

If thats freedom my bum is a kipper.

 

[udaka]

yeah,idiot! I had many time to waste ,so what?

:lol:

He has nothing to do,thus,he is wasting his time (and ours) by posting rubbish).Well,everyone has right on a hobby .

 

[BritinBritain]

OH, damn it , a white racist like BritinAfrica always jump up bash me,

BritinAfrica， you are a fcuking white racist ,I had no interesting quarrel with you.:horsie:

What's wrong you little troll, don't you like the truth and showing up your communist propaganda?

How do you know that I am white, I might be African, or Malay, or Chinese or Mongolian.

新年快乐。

 

[Hutchie]

British nickname for the Germans= the Huns. As Germany was invaded by Atilla the Hun. Huns came from Northern China/Mongolia. Same with Hungary and much of eastern and central Europe. My wife is from Korea, she was speaking with a lady from Hungary and was surprised how many words sounded alike. Hell if you are Chinese you could have family DNA in Germany and, yes , the great horror, in England. You could be BritnAfrica's distant cousin. Also, the British traveled all over the world, one of his ancestors might have had a Chinese girlfriend. BTW, Hitler's family name was Shicklegruber and he was at least half Jewish. The world is very small, my friend.

 

[Doppleganger]

Ok here goes...
1) Moscow was a huge risk with no guaranteed reward, without securing his southern flank a depleted Army Group Centre was going to be left in a huge salient throughout winter with Army Group North stuck at Leningrad and Army Group South to the west of Kiev.

In my opinion the Lotzen Decision was one of the few intelligent decisions Hitler made during the war.

Intelligent yes but maybe the wrong decision, if that makes any sense. Since the only way for Germany to defeat the SU was to knock them out quickly, a dash to Moscow might have been the only plan that worked. Huge risk though and established military doctrine would be to secure the flanks before advancing. It might have been a disaster to ignore the armies on the right flank of AGC but then in reality ACG was nearly routed anyway in early 1942.

2) Had Hitler withdrawn the 6th Army at the earliest possible time it would have made the withdrawal of Army Group A in the Caucuses almost impossible, as it was they only just escaped encirclement, essentially he had a choice lose an army or lose an army group he chose to sacrifice the 6th Army,

There is an argument that 6th Army (and part of 4th Panzer) acted as a plug, stopping the explosion of Red Army forces spilling into the rear of AGS. The sensible argument was that Hitler could have captured Stalingrad in early July without a fight. Speed and mobility was the Ostheer's greatest assets and as with Moscow in 1941 the Germans needed to dash quickly to secure their objectives.

3) I disagree, after the setbacks of late 1942 early 1943 Germany had to regain the initiative and Kursk was the right place for that, the fact that spies were passing the plans for Citadel back to Moscow was something the Germans could not have planned for and the delays played into Stalin's hands.

However I am convinced the problem at Kursk was a lack of ambition.

Agreed Monty. Basically at Kursk the German General Staff lost their bottle. They went for a WW1 style battle which minimized their own strengths and maximized the strengths of their enemy. A lot of the lessons of the past few years that the Germans had learned were forgotten. I am quite sure that had they gone along with Manstein's backhand blow the result would have been far more favourable for the Germans.

 

[MontyB]

Intelligent yes but maybe the wrong decision, if that makes any sense. Since the only way for Germany to defeat the SU was to knock them out quickly, a dash to Moscow might have been the only plan that worked. Huge risk though and established military doctrine would be to secure the flanks before advancing. It might have been a disaster to ignore the armies on the right flank of AGC but then in reality ACG was nearly routed anyway in early 1942.

The problem here is not just the large Red army presence on the right flank but a fixed Red army presence on the left flank as well with Leningrad and the Kola peninsula being in Russian hands thus leaving the Russian army with a hammer and anvil type scenario.
I believe that not carrying out the southern thrust would have spelled disaster for AGC and Germany during the Russian counter attacks of the winter 1941/2

 

[Doppleganger]

The problem here is not just the large Red army presence on the right flank but a fixed Red army presence on the left flank as well with Leningrad and the Kola peninsula being in Russian hands thus leaving the Russian army with a hammer and anvil type scenario.
I believe that not carrying out the southern thrust would have spelled disaster for AGC and Germany during the Russian counter attacks of the winter 1941/2

Maybe Monty, maybe. However, would the Russian forces a) realise the opportunity to cut off AGC and b) be able to ignore the forces that were driving hard towards Moscow? There would have been outright panic at STAVKA once the realization that German spearheads appeared to be going right for the capital. Any available forces would have been flung in the path of the Germans in an attempt to slow them down. What if they had captured Moscow? Would Stalin have been overthrown and a cease-fire drawn up? Would ordinary Soviet soldiers have thrown down their rifles in the confusion and panic? There are so many imponderables..

In a one season campaign, there was only one choice open to Germany and that was to capture Moscow as quickly as possible. It had every chance of turning into a disaster but it was the only chance that Hitler had. A two season campaign, however, is a different story.

 

[MontyB]

Maybe Monty, maybe. However, would the Russian forces a) realise the opportunity to cut off AGC and b) be able to ignore the forces that were driving hard towards Moscow? There would have been outright panic at STAVKA once the realization that German spearheads appeared to be going right for the capital. Any available forces would have been flung in the path of the Germans in an attempt to slow them down. What if they had captured Moscow? Would Stalin have been overthrown and a cease-fire drawn up? Would ordinary Soviet soldiers have thrown down their rifles in the confusion and panic? There are so many imponderables..

In a one season campaign, there was only one choice open to Germany and that was to capture Moscow as quickly as possible. It had every chance of turning into a disaster but it was the only chance that Hitler had. A two season campaign, however, is a different story.

By the time of the Russian winter offensives German operations had pretty much ground to a halt anyway, personally I think this argument shows how much valuable time and material was lost bailing out the Italians in the Balkans with even a couple of extra weeks Barbarossa may have turned out very differently.

 

[lljadw]

It was obvious that already in july 1941,Germany had lost all chance to eliminate the SU,and,Hitler knew it,and panicked .

 

[lljadw]

By the time of the Russian winter offensives German operations had pretty much ground to a halt anyway, personally I think this argument shows how much valuable time and material was lost bailing out the Italians in the Balkans with even a couple of extra weeks Barbarossa may have turned out very differently.

Hm:as the Germans failed in the summer,a couple of weeks would be irrelevant .

BTW: the principal reason for the delay of Barbarossa was the winter .