Originally Posted by Urbanboy

lol, i thought it was east asia we were talking about here, hey dont leave out the koreans and japanese as well


the situation with taiwan is that it is currently ruled by a pro-independency government, something that does jeopardize the relations


id rather have good ol kmt rule taiwan

I agree that the Nationalist Government KMT should rule Taiwan, because they have no desire to separate, unlike Chen Sui Bean!

Originally Posted by Urbanboy

lol, i thought it was east asia we were talking about here, hey dont leave out the koreans and japanese as well

Believe me, I'm including Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam and everyone else in the neighborhood in that.

id rather have good ol kmt rule taiwan

That's one thing I'm unclear on. Isn't the Independence Movement working within the current policial system (which derived from the KMT) and more or less just asking for a name change for the Republic of China? Or are they seeking to establish a new country with a new Constitution and Government?

Bear in mind that I'm of the firm opinion that if China isn't wanting to invade so long as they do not declare themselves "not part of China" then the people of Taiwan are being stupid.

you dont even know the differences??? my god


ok, kmt is a nationlistic pro one china political party with interests in the rebuilding of the kmt forces and in mainlanders

theparty chenshuibien in is another thing, they wanted what the taiwanese wanted, maybe not the mainlanders on taiwan but mostly towards the natives, it is about independence

up to now we had pretty good agreements that there can only be one chian, but since this SOB chenshuibien came along and the kmt voted out we have this huge probelm wiht TI

personally the kmt is actually not a bad party to being with, i dont see how they are treating the taiwanese so differently one from another, and i think they shouldn've allowed such voting since lee deng hui is a traitor

Actually, I was referring to the political system that the KMT established when Chaing KaiShek moved them to Taiwan. I wasn't talking about a political party. Someone needs to be flogged for naming their political party that, it opens the door for unnecessary confusion.

So the political system that evolved from what was established by the KMT when they arrived ... isn't the current system of government an evolved form of that same political structure and government?

So the political system that evolved from what was established by the KMT when they arrived ... isn't the current system of government an evolved form of that same political structure and government?THE CURRENT RULING REBEL PARTY IS DIFFERENT FROM KMT

KMT ORGINALLY UNTIL THE 90S WERE A STRICT-DICTATORSHIP TYPE OF GOVERNMENT, ALOT WORSE THAN CHINA IN WHICH THEY EVEN CONTROLLED THE WAY PEOPLE SPEAK

THE CURRENT RULING REBEL PARTY IS ANOTHER THING, IT EVOLVED FROM THE INTERESTS OF TAIWANESE

SINCE LEE DENG HUI CAME , HE ADVISES DEMOCRACY AND GAVE ALOT MORE INTERESTS TOWARDS TAIWANESE AND EASED POLITICAL RELATIONS WITH JAPAN

PROBABLY CUZ HES TAIWANESE AND HES A HAN JIAN( JAPANESE GRUOPIE/TRAITOR OF CHINESE), I CAN SUPPORT THAT BECAUSE HE LOVES JAPAN AND WENT TO SCHOOL THERE WITH STATEMENTS SUCH AS I LOVE JAPAN AND JAPAN IS THE BEST COUNTRY BLAH BLAH BLAH

Okay, I think you see where there was plenty of room for confusion there. Anyways, that clarifies it somewhat (Zyca can give his version and I think everbody can then have a nice complete perspective).

As far as Japan is concerned ... it may be difficult to see I suppose. China has a lot of good reasons for not liking Japan. But they have many admirable traits. In terms of technological industries and manufacturing, they're the best in the world in numerous categories. Better than the USA in many instances. They have a powerful economy. Very powerful, considering their population. They have gotten capitalism and economics right. They're one of the few economic powerhouses on Earth that is smart enough to grab great new ideas. It was Swiss people who invented digital watches, yet the Swiss manufacturers more or less called the idea nonsense and told the inventors to bugger off. They went to Japan and Japan ran with the idea. Lean Manufacturing was a concept developed by an American. American manufacturers never even gave the concept half a chance. Japan did. Now, if you want a dependable automobile (for instance), odds are your buying Japanese ... or European (largely because they copied Japan). CEO's of US manufacturers still are too bullheaded and arrogant to bother seeing the obvious: Someone came up with a good idea that could help them make a better product. By being extremely openminded, Japan has used other nations ideas first and better than anyone. That is an admirable trait.

YA ADMIRABLE, CHINESE HAVE A WEAKNESS, AND IS THAT THOUGH WE HAVE STICKED TOGETHER FOR WARS AND WHEN OUR COUNTRY IS IN CRISIS, WE PRETTY MUCH ARE EVERYONE FOR THEMSELVES, THOUGH ITS MORE OF A UNSPOKEN TRUTH THAT OCCURS

THINGS LIKE FAKE PRODDUCTS, CONTRABAND AND COPY RIGHTS STUFF REFLECTS THIS KIND OF THINKING FROM THE AVERAGE CHINESE, IT SEEMS WE SEE OURSELVES AS TOO SMART TO HELP OTHERS AND WE KEEP PROFITS TO OURSELVES.

IT IS WEIRD HOW THIS WORKS, BUT THATS HOW MY MIND WORKS TOO. THIS IS ONE WEAKNESS THATS GONING TO PROVE DIFFCULT TO CURB LATER IN TEH FUTURE


- THIS WAS A CRITISM I TYPED FROM AN ARTICLE I JUST READ ABOUT, APPARENTLY THIS IS TRUE

The contrast is at least interesting. China seems to still have the "Middle Kingdom on the brain." By that, I mean that there is still a strong sentiment that nothing outside China is useful to China and everything from China is better than anything the rest of the world has. It seems less prevalent now that it once was, certainly. Yet there seems to be this strange sentiment that, "Someday we'll once again be the Middle Kingdom. All the world will once again bow before us and we can then return to our comfortable attitude toward the outside world: 'We are better than all other nations and there is nothing useful that the rest of the world can offer China.' "

The Boxer Rebellion and Opium War and a long list of other events were the wakeup calls that China and her government missed completely. Even worse, they brutally subdued anyone promoting the idea of "Westernizing" or "modernizing" in any fashion. After getting pumelled time and time again, the Qing Dynasty crumbles and Sun Yat-sen rises to power. Sun works to try to modernize. He, Chaing KaiShek and Mao Zedong all had one helluva fight to try to get the Chinese people to accept the idea of modernizing. Now contrast that with Japan, who very quickly recognized that they were WAY behind. So what did they do? They made the determination that they would adopt Western Culture as the means to surpassing the West in every way possible. Beating them at their own game, in essence. That attitude has worked to make Japan one of the most modern and technologically advanced nations in the world. There have been many wrong steps, but the end result can only be called a brilliant success, overall.

So my main point: Why cry "traitor" at Taiwan for adopting the things that made the Western Powers truly powerful? Why call names at all? Would it not be better to learn from them?

If anyone is interested (history of DPP):

http://203.73.100.105/english/pub/LIT_2.asp

Traitor is not a term appropriate for Lee, although he's often extremely pro-Japan. He empowered people (and in term empowered Taiwanese because they are the majority) and opened the gate for CSB's presidency in 2000 and 2004 (starting 1996 people get to vote for presidents directly). To me, he's the most significant figure in Taiwan's road to democracy. From his youth and the education he went through I am sure most can understand why he's pro-Japan and anti-China (pretty much like why every Chinese is anti-Japan and pro-China). Like I said he's sometimes too pro-Japan to my liking, but to think that he SHOULD be Chinese just becuase Chinese think that Taiwanese are all Chinese and then to attack him as a traitor is too zealously pro-China, which is understandable if you are Chinese I guess.

Only difference is government.