Chewie, that just demonstrates to the rest of us how Darwinism works. The lower on the evolution chain, the more apt an animal is to try and destroy anything they can never possess, usually by defecating on it, so no other being can have it. Like you say, NZ is too small to hack these monsters off because they are dangerous ,stupid, but dangerous.

About Neo-Nazis, I've heard too much of their constant squabbling too many times. Basically they repeat what Hitler have said in his Prison Book "Mein Kamff".

We ahd a problem with this in our school, a small group of white-supremicists started holding rallys and passing out flyers in school trying to get people to join. The school can do nothing about it as they were not using this in a negative way. What happened was a group of teachers got our nine biggest football players together, told them what this kid was doing, and during lunch they all walked to the opposite end of the commons and turned their backs. The football players went over and gave the kids passing them out a little pep talk, long story short, the kids never again passed out these flyers.

That is the problem with Freedom of Speech, we have to put up with so much of this BS. What we need to be able to do is take people like that out back and beat them.

Originally Posted by chewie_nz

they just love the internet though....they can talk tough without fear that their targets will find out that they're scawny little scared boys, looking for someone to blame for their crappy lives

now they have hit me somewhere personally, my (second) favourite forum...www.punkas.com


Okay, unfortunately I'm being forced to do something I didn't want to do on the message boards. I've always been proud of the open-mindedness of the community here, where we've been able to share ideas and let anyone say anything they like - as long as they can take a bit of healthy argument if people disagree.

About this time last year, a few guys with, to be euphemistic, strong racial separatist views turned up on the message boards. Although I copped a bit of flak for it, I felt that it was important we let anyone say their piece, regardless of whether the majority may disagree with their worldview. As it turned out, the views were challenged pretty convincingly, and repeatedly. I know I found it all rather amusing.

Unfortunately, things quickly generated into petty schoolyard squabbles and name-calling but, hey, nothing necessarily wrong with that. I still defended the rights of these individuals to come here and say whatever they liked, even though they clearly have zero interest in punk music or the punk scene, as long as they showed respect for the fact that this is my web site and it costs me time and money to run - as well as considerable effort on the part of Warren @ Zylex and Jay, who does a lot for absolutely no thanks or payment of any kind.

But this respect has not been shown, with the message board being hacked over the weekend by Fascists. I don't need the additional headache of repairing damage caused by some fifteen-year-old who will never know the loving touch of a woman, so from now on any threads on topics that I regard as being involved in these sorts of issues - regardless of whether it is for or against - will be deleted without warning.

A big thanks to everyone who DOES post useful, intelligent and/or funny posts - that's what the board is for, and I appreciate it a h**l of a lot. Cheers, -- Matt

http://www.punkas.com/


GOD I HATE NAZIS!

Unfortunately the Punk, and especially the Skinhead scene, has some deep connections with Neo-Nazism, at least that's the case in the UK. There are a few skinhead bands who are directly connected with the British National Front, a Neo-Nazi style organization, to the extent they are basically a rallying tool. So it doesn't help the legitimate fans who are into the music and the spirit and ethos of punk when this kind of thing is also associated. Also, a lot of the Skinhead bands are linked to the Blood & Honour movement, which is a loose Neo-Nazi umbrella.

How do I know all this you're probably wondering? Well in my misspent youth I was in the punk/skinhead scene for a couple of years and through my knowledge of WW2 I know that 'Blut und Ehre' (Blood and Honour) is the inscription on the dagger that was given to the Hitlerjugend (Hitler Youth) when they passed out, ready to join their front-line units.

we just had an australian "blood and honour" connected band play at a national front orginised gig. police outnumberd punters!


as for the roots of the skins movement....the neo nazis like to ignore these little facts;

History
It is widely accepted that the Skinhead subculture originated in 1960s Jamaica, among the "Rude Boys" who ran drug and prostitution rackets on the impoverished streets of cities like Kingston. It is true that Jamaican immigrants to Britain, who emulated the rude boys as folk heroes, joined the London working class youth as dock workers, and that their music and culture provided a nucleus around which the skinhead subculture coalesced.

London in the early 1960s was experiencing a growing class separation between the working class - struggling, relegated to substandard housing, and increasingly neglected by their political representatives - and the middle class. Those youths who could afford it invested in new fashions popularized by The Beatles (haircuts) and Carnaby Street merchants (clothing). These were the Mods, a youth subculture noted for its consumerism and affection for style, music and scooters. Those of lesser means, such as the dock workers, made do with the practical styles that suited their employment - steel-toed boots, straight-legged denim jeans, and shirts and braces (suspenders in the US) often handed down by their fathers. When possible, their limited funds were spent on smart outfits worn in the evenings to the dancehalls, where they danced to ska, reggae, and rocksteady beats alongside their Jamaican coworkers.

Around 1965 a group of "hard" or "gang" mods, who could be identified by their shorter hair and working-class image, emerged from the larger mod scene. This resulted in a schism that produced "peacock mods" (The Who, The Kinks) and skinheads, commonly known by that name by around 1968. (Other early nicknames included "lemons", "peanuts" and "suits.") Early followers were mainly interested in and influenced by Jamaican Reggae and Ska music (aka, The Spirit of 69), Jamaican Rude Boy culture and a dislike of those perceived as the 'ruling classes'. They had an extreme dislike for the government and many larger businesses as both appeared to lack sympathy for the increasingly desperate straits of the working class.

Skinhead culture exploded in the year 1969, to the extent that even the rock band Slade adopted the look, after which the original skinheads slowly dropped into new categories, including the "Suede-head" (defined by the ability to manipulate one's hair with a comb) and the next-stage "Smoothies" (often with hairstyles down to shoulder length). Fashions within both groups regressed to their mod roots, reintroducing the common wearing of brogues (originally an identifier once boots became too conspicuous) as well as the slacks-and-sweater look. Here was a far cry from the singularly blue-jeaned and typically steel-toe booted skins of the past.

During the mid-1970s in the UK, the skinhead movement was reborn in an unexpected way. With the introduction of Punk Rock to the public, kids were looking for the next great shock-rockers. Skinheads with shorter hair, less emphasis on style, and a new sound grew in numbers and grabbed the attention of the media as a result of repeated incidents of hooliganism during football matches, often to the point of rioting between rival groups of supporters. Whether these riots were, in fact, initiated by skinheads or by overzealous fans in general is the subject of some controversy, but it is clear that skinheads were eager participants.

So-called "Punk skins" also gained a great deal of media attention after they were recruited by the racist political group, the National Front, which used the skinheads' reputation for violence to intimidate its opposition. Most skinheads deny that their group was recruited to engage in racist and criminal activity by this organization, claiming that the National Front recruited street youth, shaved their heads to give them the appearance of skinheads, and paid them to bully, threaten and even commit violence upon immigrant workers. The negative press generated concerning skinheads caused a decrease in their numbers.

American skinheads were also being recruited (or created, for similar purposes by racist groups around this time. After a number of brutal attacks were reported in the media, they received the same spin as their British counterparts. Fueled by sensationalist television, all skinheads were stereotyped as mindless, violent, and racist, with little attempt made to discriminate one subgroup from another. In an attempt to counter this negative stereotype, 1987 saw the birth of the SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice (SHARP) organization in New York. The group claims to be opposed all forms of bigotry. In addition, Anti-Racist Action (ARA), a militant anti-racist organization, also has its roots in skinhead culture, along with RASH, "Red and Anarchist Skinheads".

The Third wave of ska brought a resurgence in skinhead subculture in the early 1990s, and the popularity of the group continues to grow. Today, skinheads can be found in all of North America and Europe, as well as in scattered places worldwide such as Japan, Brazil, and Israel.

Sects
There are a number of different "types" of skinhead, who divide themselves and their allegiances across political and racism lines, resulting in three primary categories.

Neo-Nazi Skins (sometimes called White Power and derogatorily referred to as "boneheads" by Trads and SHARPs) - Racist and highly political. The most vocal and well recognized subgroup is the Hammerskins.
SHARP (Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice) - Political, and aggressively anti-racist. Considered a response to mass media's stereotyping of skinheads as racists.
Traditional, Trad, Trojan or Original - This group closely identifies itself with the original skinhead movement ("The Spirit of 69"), maintaining working class pride and a dislike for the "ruling class". Largely apolitical. This group is the largest sect of the subculture.
There are a number of minor sects within these which are worth mentioning, the Reds or Redskins (communists), Anarchists, white pride/racialists, and gay skinheads among them.

In-fighting and Hostilities
Each sect of skinhead may be considered to be hostile to a number of other groups, though violence is the exception to a rule of name-calling, harassment and defamation behind closed doors. Some traditional enmities include:

Traditionalists - Punk-Skins (sometimes including SHARPs and racist/racialist groups), Punks, Bikers, Greasers, Red Skins, Metalheads, Hippies
Punk-Skins (old school) - Mods, Trads, Bikers, Greasers, Teddy Boys, Red Skins, Hippies
SHARPs - Red Skins, Hippies, Fence-Walkers (non-racist skins who will associate with racist skinheads).
Racist/Racialist/White Pride/White Power/Neo-Nazi - Minorities, Anti-war protestors, SHARP / ARA skins, gay skinheads, and especially Jews and non-white immigrants
It should be noted that degrees of hostility vary regionally and locally. In many places, for example, trad skins, punks and SHARPs mix freely and without conflict. White Power and neo-Nazi groups tend to be less tolerant, however.

as with all things...neo nazis lose themselves on the "little" details

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/sundays...4a6005,00.html

http://www.nzpolitics.com/viewtopic.php?t=615

And the saddest part is - that all of them - in the eyes of a rabid - Koran-quoting jihadist - are infidels - to be grouped in with the Christians, Jews, Communists, atheists, - follow the track to the farthest left-leaning groups of people you can find.

All of us who do not cower and quote in fear - abandoning whatever belief system we currently hold faith to - and state unequivocably that "There is no god but Allah, and Mohammad is his messenger" - we are ALL infidels and therefore subject to the penalty of death under the hand of the jihadist.

Originally Posted by Corocotta

Well, that would be great, but here in Europe we have some examples of ultra-right political parties, very close to neo-nazis(if not the same), that are already in the power. See Le-Pen in France, Umberto Bossi & Gian Franco Fini in Italy, Haider in Austria, Edmund Stoiber in Germany,Pim Fortuyn in Holland(he was Killed), The PNV in Spain,and many more examples.

even here in morocco neo-nazis exists, only " white moroccans" they hate moroccan blacks too!

Originally Posted by Missileer

The lower on the evolution chain, the more apt an animal is to try and destroy anything they can never possess, usually by defecating on it, so no other being can have it.

Spot on my carbon based projectile engineer...
In early childhood development this is something we look for as a sign of trouble. In middle school its something in students that is a sign we missed em earlier on. And in high school we usually give up and call the cops. A few brave souls with the patience of the saint can save a few of these kids but more are missed. What should we do? What should we do when it appears a large group of adults is engaged in this behaviour? Call the cops? Or take the time to find out why and work to bring 'em around and show them they are only disenfranchised through their own destructive behaviour. For our kids sake this is something we have to give more thought.

i think it is all about education

the higher a person is educated, the less chance he is going to be a racist, or narrow-minded