Ten dead in US school shooting
22 March 2005

ST PAUL: Ten people have been shot dead and more than a dozen wounded by a student who opened fire at a high school and a home on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota.

Among the dead was a male security guard, a female teacher, three students and the gunman, FBI agent Paul McCabe said. As many as 15 other students were injured.

"They believe the shooter is among the dead and was acting alone," McCabe said.

Prior to the afternoon school shooting, the student shot dead a couple at a home on the reservation, McCabe said.

Other officials identified the couple as the gunman's grandparents, who were apparently among the dead. His grandfather was a longtime police officer on the reservation, a fire department official told CBS News.

"The young man, whoever he is, shot his grandfather and grandmother, and then went to the school and shot as many as 16 more," said Vernon Bellecourt of the American Indian Movement in Minneapolis.

The reservation is home to the Ojibwa tribe, commonly known as the Chippewa, Bellecourt said.

The shooting follows the March 12 shooting deaths of seven congregants at a church service near Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which ended when the gunman killed himself.

In 2003, a student at Rocori High School in central Minnesota gunned down two classmates. He is awaiting trial.

so then...what is to blame here? is it the right to bear arms, is it computor games or marilyn manson again? is the fact that this happened on a Native american reservation important...or even relavent?

I think that US society is very violent. I really do not understand how easily can you buy a semi automatic rifle and carry it with you while you go to the supermarket. It is strange for me. I also heard that some banks will give a gun to every costumer that open an account...may be it is just bulls*it, but never know...

Originally Posted by staurofilakes

I think that US society is very violent. I really do not understand how easily can you buy a semi automatic rifle and carry it with you while you go to the supermarket. It is strange for me. I also heard that some banks will give a gun to every costumer that open an account...may be it is just bulls*it, but never know...

On the flip side, they're a tough bunch.
I think the gun thing needs serious consideration.
It should be like in Austria. You need special licenses for handguns. Rifles? Go ahead.

so then...what is to blame here? is it the right to bear arms, is it computor games or marilyn manson again? is the fact that this happened on a Native american reservation important...or even relavent?

I think this is a case of nutters with guns are dangerous and when you have 300 million people they can do a lot of damage, in many ways I think this is a symptom of the lowering of personal responsibility expectations world wide.

I think that US society is very violent. I really do not understand how easily can you buy a semi automatic rifle and carry it with you while you go to the supermarket.

I disagree completely, having spent a lot of time in the US I can say that I have never at any stage felt in danger there infact I would go as far as saying that there are areas of New Zealand I avoid before areas of the US. As for the rifle thing well to my knowledge thats not entirely the case although I really dont fully understand US gun laws.

Originally Posted by staurofilakes

I think that US society is very violent. I really do not understand how easily can you buy a semi automatic rifle and carry it with you while you go to the supermarket. It is strange for me. I also heard that some banks will give a gun to every costumer that open an account...may be it is just bulls*it, but never know...

remember where you are staurofilakes! perhaps refering to michael moore films is the wrong thing to do! however parts of bowling for columbine were right on the money IMO.

put it this way, the only difference between myself and the columbine shooters was the access to firearms ( i even remember thinking at the time that i would've done the same thing....i SYMPATHISED with them!)

i listened to metal, played violent games, was bullied by "jocks"

it all comes back to gun ownership.

the king of england isn't going to come back to reclaim the colony!



but in saying that, the US is so deep in arms it would take a long and difficult process to get them to the stage of gun ownership & licenseing as it is in say; Britian, Australia, or NZ

Right. I lived in Washington DC for 4 1/2 years.
We had 9/11 and the sniper incident and of course the regular murders etc. but no, generally it was okay. As long as you avoid the bad spots. Just like in many other places really.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Right. I lived in Washington DC for 4 1/2 years.
We had 9/11 and the sniper incident and of course the regular murders etc. but no, generally it was okay. As long as you avoid the bad spots. Just like in many other places really.

My personal belief is that if say 0.1% of the worlds population are psychopaths and you have a population of 300 million then those ones are going to show up proportionately more than the 0.1% of 4 million.

but no, generally it was okay. As long as you avoid the bad spots. Just like in many other places really.

Exactly.

so where are the spots you avoid in NZ monty?


far enough on the pecentage side of things too....after all we had aramoana


but we aren't just talking about psychopaths....what about whenever a school kid gets upset they see walking into a common room at school with a machine gun is the best way to show his disaproval?

what about the total gun deaths in the states? per population?

surely the "easier" access to some heavy duty weapons makes this a serious issue?

I think it's kinda unfair to compare it with New Zealand though. From what I know of that place it's supposed to be extremely peaceful. As in EXTREMELY. Any place would seem violent compared to that. But I don't know New Zealand well so...

so where are the spots you avoid in NZ monty?

Pretty much anywhere in south Auckland, most of the smaller east coast North island towns, specific areas of New Plymouth (being based there now).

I really just dont accept the "ban guns" and the problem is solved argument because if someone is going to go nuts with a weapon they are going to use whatever is at hand, I accept that you might keep the death toll down by removing guns from the equation but it wont solve the problem.

I think it's kinda unfair to compare it with New Zealand though. From what I know of that place it's supposed to be extremely peaceful. As in EXTREMELY. Any place would seem violent compared to that. But I don't know New Zealand well so...

You obviously havent spent time in NZ, I think we have one of the highest family violence rates in the world if not the highest, the only real difference here is that we tend to beat the crap out of each other rather than shoot each other.