When a tree is not a tree

Haig was actually ore careful with the lives of his soldiers than some people think, field marshal French was replaced with hair, French was a bitter man who gained pleasure from belittling one of his better subordinates dorien-smyth.
He ruined his subordinates reputation and his own through blaming others for his mistakes and not following orders as well as being uncooperative with his French allies.
Having one of his subordinates took over because French had already besmirched dorien smyth.
With the nature of the fighting on the western front, how could haig of done differently?
The French replaced there generals constantly, but every time it all ended up the same, hundreds of thousands dead and injured for a few miles of land.
The truth is that Britain didn't have anyone who could replace him and do any better, the end results would of been the same. However the backs against the wall message and steadfastness of haig certainly helped save the british army in 1918.

My Granddad served with the Middlesex Regiment on the Somme, he was there when hill 60 was blown up. The stories he told were horrific, the loss of life horrendous.

As you will know troops advanced through no mans land at a walk carrying heavy kit, in the face of machine guns??? Sandhurst Military Academy did quite a lot research into this tactic using modern training aids, they found less lives would be lost if kit was dumped and short dashes across open ground.

He did the same in the Boer War, he sent thousands of troops across open ground against well entrenched Boer riflemen. Again the slaughter was horrific.
 
My Granddad served with the Middlesex Regiment on the Somme, he was there when hill 60 was blown up. The stories he told were horrific, the loss of life horrendous.

As you will know troops advanced through no mans land at a walk carrying heavy kit, in the face of machine guns??? Sandhurst Military Academy did quite a lot research into this tactic using modern training aids, they found less lives would be lost if kit was dumped and short dashes across open ground.

He did the same in the Boer War, he sent thousands of troops across open ground against well entrenched Boer riflemen. Again the slaughter was horrific.

My great uncle Jack was in the British army and said they had to eat their own horses and boot leather to keep from staving. He said trench life was horrific sometimes flooded, sometimes filled with snow. From the way he spoke it was a miracle any of them survived. Over the top was virtually a death sentence. I believe he lost 3 or 4 brothers on the western front. The details are a bit fuzzy since he passed some 40 years ago. It amazing how well these guys did for themselves after the war considering the strain this must have but on their nerves.
 
My great uncle Jack was in the British army and said they had to eat their own horses and boot leather to keep from staving. He said trench life was horrific sometimes flooded, sometimes filled with snow. From the way he spoke it was a miracle any of them survived. Over the top was virtually a death sentence. I believe he lost 3 or 4 brothers on the western front. The details are a bit fuzzy since he passed some 40 years ago. It amazing how well these guys did for themselves after the war considering the strain this must have but on their nerves.

My Granddad was wounded three times, gassed and frostbitten, he totally lost his sense of smell. "

Without a doubt it was a miracle any of them survived.

A very senior officer visiting the front line for the first time was heard to remark, "Good God, are you telling me men live and fight in these conditions.

The propaganda of the time, they were fighting for, Ä Land Fit For Hero's". Many of those Hero's ended up selling matches on street corners to survive. My Granddad couldn't find work and had to succumb to what was called "The means test." A government official came to where he lived and told him to sell what little furniture her had, the icing on the cake was, he told my Grandmother to sell her wedding ring. My Grandfather assaulted him and threw him out. By some miracle he survived collecting scrap metal and selling it.
 
The Polish cavalry was in reality mounted infantry which was not used against tanks but against German supply forces,besides,the Germans had also a calry division,and Britain and France had also cavalry units .
 
My great uncle Jack was in the British army and said they had to eat their own horses and boot leather to keep from staving. He said trench life was horrific sometimes flooded, sometimes filled with snow. From the way he spoke it was a miracle any of them survived. Over the top was virtually a death sentence. I believe he lost 3 or 4 brothers on the western front. The details are a bit fuzzy since he passed some 40 years ago. It amazing how well these guys did for themselves after the war considering the strain this must have but on their nerves.

All those soldiers living in conditions like that and with the livestock behind the lines brought something nasty with them when they returned back home. This little nasty thing killed more people than the war. This little nasty thing did something odd. Usually the mortality rate of an outbreak of a flu kill the young and the elderly. The graphs of the mortality rate and age usually have an U shape, the flu pandemic in 1918-19 has a W shape. The first sign of this killer appeared in 1916 when it decimated British units at one part of the front line. The living conditions during the Great War contributed to the pandemic. Packing a lot of people together for an extended period of time in conditions like the trenches and then send them back home.
 
We always think of Germany invading Poland when in fact Russia was also in on the invasion , why didn't France and England declare war on Russia ? , politics make's for strange bedfellows .

Umm I have read a rather odd story about this that claimed because Germany had all but destroyed Poland the Russian invasion was not considered an invasion as Poland had ceased to be a functioning state by the time they crossed the border.

I imagine that no matter what the story really was there would have been a lot of hand ringing to come up with the answer.
 
I have to agree with Tetvet, but remember Chamberlain was a hand wringing appeaser.

Two people realised war was imminent, Churchill and R.J. Mitchell the designer of the Spitfire. R.J. Mitchell spent a lot of time in Germany, he realised what was happening. He cut short his time in Germany then rushed back to Super Marine to carry on with his work.

What was disgusting, at the VE Day march past in London, the Poles were not allowed to take part.
 
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Now General Haig learnt slowly, but what happened when the Americans joined the war. They made the same mistakes and advanced in open order across no mans land and got cut to ribbons even when they were told about the losses they would face if they did it, they reckoned that they knew best and carried on doing this for the last year of the war right up to and including the 11th November.
 
To be honest matey, I don't think Haig ever learned. You only have to look at his record during the Anglo Boer War, he should have learned from that, but he didn't.
 
We always think of Germany invading Poland when in fact Russia was also in on the invasion , why didn't France and England declare war on Russia ? , politics make's for strange bedfellows .

Umm I have read a rather odd story about this that claimed because Germany had all but destroyed Poland the Russian invasion was not considered an invasion as Poland had ceased to be a functioning state by the time they crossed the border.

I imagine that no matter what the story really was there would have been a lot of hand ringing to come up with the answer.

I believe England realized that Germany posed the real treat. France was a natural enemy to Germany. Also the USSR was considered to have an army that was not nearly so threatening as that of the Germans at this point in time. What's surprising is their declaration of war meant virtually nothing. It became known as the sitzkrieg or phony war until Germany invaded Norway.
 
We always think of Germany invading Poland when in fact Russia was also in on the invasion , why didn't France and England declare war on Russia ? , politics make's for strange bedfellows .
Pretty logical, I think. It was the only practical option available. A war with Germany was daunting enough but one with the USSR as well would have been all but unwinable.
 
Pretty logical, I think. It was the only practical option available. A war with Germany was daunting enough but one with the USSR as well would have been all but unwinable.

Unwinnable how? Because they would have had to gone thru Germany to get there. Or would the Royal Navy have attacked via Siberia - Kamchatka.
It was impractical. Militarily Germany presented the greater obstacle.
 
No it was not necessary to go through Germany
There were plans to attack from Finland.

One of the reason the Germans almost beat the USSR was they had a continuous front extending across the entire western frontier of the USSR. This allowed them quick access to the vast steppes in the Ukraine and the Russian heartland where they could make quick armored advances. This type of sweeping advance would have been close to impossible for an attack on the USSR from Finland only. I'm not saying it wasn't on the drawing board but not only was it impractical Russia wasn't the threat.

In repetition, Germany was the treat having the most powerful army in the world at the time. All they had to do was read Mein Kampf to know that a war of aggression was in the cards. This was proven out only a short while later with the German quickly taking by force: Denmark. Norway, Holland, Belgium, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, Crete and a large amount of the western USSR. Russia in the mean time only took the Baltic states and a small corner of Romania.
 
As Poland did not declare war on the SU in september 1939,there was no reason for B + F to declare war on the SU .

Besides,for Poland Stalin in Eastern Poland was better than Hitler in Eastern Poland .
 
About Haig ,the following are the British and Commonwealth losses on the Western Front in WWI


1914:95000

1915:276000

1916: 657000

1917: 837000

1918: 850000

1) Haig became commander in chief on the Western Front ONLY in december 1915.

2)Comparatively,the British and Commonwealth losses in WWI were not much greater than those in WWII,because there was less fighting (and thus less casualties) in WWII and because the ground forces were smaller than in WWI:in WWII,the BEF had not 70 divisions .More fighting and more men = more losses .

The British Army had no casualties in 1939,because there was no fighting that year.

In 1940,the BEF lost 68000 men in less than 2 months(some 35000 a month) while in 1915 the losses were 276000 = 23000 men .

There were big losses during the years that Haig was CiC,but these years were years of unceasing big fighting : Britain was condemned to attack on the Western Front ,less casualties would mean less fighting,which was out of the question .

3) 1917 (the Passendale year) was not more expensive than 1918,the year of victory .

4)During the years that Haig commanded the BEF,the Germans,who remained on the defensive,also suffered heavy losses .

5)Even in WWII was cheaper (which it was only in absolute figures),victory in WWI could not be obtained with the same low level of losses as in WWII.
 
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