Once again - Blackwater was contracted by the US Government, the key word is contract. This contract clearly laid out Blackwater's ROE (covered in 1L). Blackwater's position is that they were engaged and that they were returning fire. It seems to me this is not the first time the insurgents have used human shields.
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There was some concern about what the company will do if evicted from Iraq, I can assure you Blackwater has enough obligations to fufill where nobody is getting laid off!
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Here's an idea - instead of putting a US Base back in Lebanon, we should let Blackwater go in and provide security! Wait - I think I am on to something!!! The U.S. Military has been consistent on objecting to security work - right? How many times have we heard the argument - the US Military should not be tasked as the free world's police force...
Can see where I am going? Hey - get Mr. Prince on the line!

Originally Posted by Tsunami

Once again - Blackwater was contracted by the US Government, the key word is contract. This contract clearly laid out Blackwater's ROE (covered in 1L). Blackwater's position is that they were engaged and that they were returning fire. It seems to me this is not the first time the insurgents have used human shields.

If the US Government "contracted" the Mafia, that would not give it legitimacy. You consistently ignore the fact that Blackwater has absolutely no legal standing outside the United States other than as foreign visitors.

There was some concern about what the company will do if evicted from Iraq, I can assure you Blackwater has enough obligations to fufill where nobody is getting laid off!

If that involves their employment only in the USA, that is the concern of the US Govenment and the citizens. Go for it.

I'm not exactly sure who you're addressing, Tsunami, but despite your very good argument, it won't make a bit of difference if the contract is a. nullified by the Iraqi govt's insistence they pull out, b. nullified by USG insistence that Blackwater be removed from the scene and/or pulls its contract, or c. investigations show that the company's employees violated their rules of engagement and/or contract. As for my last post, I was speaking hypothetically and I'm pretty sure that I made it clear that I was not making a reference to Blackwater's operations in Iraq.

Originally Posted by senojekips

If the US Government "contracted" the Mafia, that would not give it legitimacy. You consistently ignore the fact that Blackwater has absolutely no legal standing outside the United States other than as foreign visitors.
If that involves their employment only in the USA, that is the concern of the US Govenment and the citizens. Go for it.

They have no legal standing within the US either, despite some of them claiming to have been deputized during Hurricane Katrina in order to terrorize residents. Not only did they claim powers of arrest and detention but also Deadly Force.

There was never any record of either the Governor or DHS giving them this power.

That is why they are so dangerous they consider themselves above everything.

Why Felony charges of "impersonating a police officer" were not filed in LA is beyond me.

Because they were doing what someone wanted them to do. Its not that hard to figure out. And like I told TOG, unless you know some of them personally you should be wary of making judgements about their beliefs and values, that's called bigotry.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

Because they were doing what someone wanted them to do. Its not that hard to figure out. And like I told TOG, unless you know some of them personally you should be wary of making judgements about their beliefs and values, that's called bigotry.

Obviously, they were doing what the employer wanted them to do. But Rent-a-Cop is not the same as a *real* cop. Despite Blackwater claims, There is NO EVIDENCE of anybody deputizing them legally, neither in DHS or the Governors Office. That means thay were acting illegally.

Thats not a judgment, thats a FELONY.

There was another PMC that acted as if they were a Police Force in Germany during the 1930's, they were called the SA.

MMARSH - your blather is rather repugnant, I have added the definition below so you can work it over in your mind a few times:
re·pug·nant [ri-puhg-nuhnt]
–adjective
1. distasteful, objectionable, or offensive: a repugnant smell.
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They have no legal standing within the US either, despite some of them claiming to have been deputized during Hurricane Katrina in order to terrorize residents.
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If you prefaced the above remark with "in my opinion" then I could roll with it... However - having survived 3 years of law school I can say honestly say that statement crosses the line in so many respects starting with the legality.
They are a privately held corporation - they have papers on file w/ the SEC, why would they be permitted to exist as a privately held corp if their activities were in fact illegal? Serious - and don't respond w/ that conspiracy crap neither.
Be very careful about the use of the word "terrorize" - likening this group of men to the subhuman scum were currently hunting in the middle east is a big step. It's a step showing ignorance to a degree that I don't think you intended.
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^^^ Gotta agree with the big wave on this one folks. MMarsh, you are making statements that read as though you are proclaiming facts. Do you have proof or is this indisgestion of the personal kind? If you claim these as facts can you please provide chapter and verse for the following claims...

1. Blackwater employees engaging in terrorist activities.

2. Blackwater employees or the company making a statement explicitly or implicitly stating they are above everything (I assume you mean the law).

3. The records of an investigation proving claims against Blackwater employees that they "impersonated police officers".

I wait with salivating intellect.

I still stand by that Blackwater and the like must be subject to some kind of law, whether it be Iraqi (which they are not subject to) or American (which doesn't seem to be the case entirely either).
Iraqi civilian deaths must be treated seriously or else the message you send to the Iraqis is "you're not even people to us." Which is precisely not the sort of message you want to send if you want to win over hearts and minds.
Also I'm curious to see what will become of a PMC as big as Blackwater after the war in Iraq is over. Companies and other organizations of the like don't have good histories with going out quietly. They need to make ends meet.

I think one of the reasons this has happened is the whole move to a lighter, faster and more mobile force. Such forces already exist. USMC has been doing this forever and there's also Army Airborne divisions.
The traditional Army is large and heavy because it always needed to be that way. Now that they've tried to turn the whole Army into something lighter and more deployable, you've got the issue of not having enough troops.
Uggh.

Anyways, a valuable lesson for the military and the politicians who like to tweak with it all the time. I doubt anyone's gonna learn anything though.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

Obviously, they were doing what the employer wanted them to do. But Rent-a-Cop is not the same as a *real* cop. Despite Blackwater claims, There is NO EVIDENCE of anybody deputizing them legally, neither in DHS or the Governors Office. That means thay were acting illegally.

Thats not a judgment, thats a FELONY.

There was another PMC that acted as if they were a Police Force in Germany during the 1930's, they were called the SA.

I agree, and, the Republican Controlled Justice Department may have something to do with no Charges being brought at a Federal Level for Merc's Operating on US Soil.

I believe once the Democrats take over all of Washington D.C. that Blackwater will be out of a job totally, and I can only hope that the Democrats do not just hire a Democrat Company in place of a Republican Company (Blackwater) to do the same thing.