Actually, I agree whole-heartedly with the position that pressure should be applied to Japan to face its history of aggression and war crimes. I'm not just talking about WWII. Having lived in South Korea, I can tell you there is plenty to attack the Japanese for in any year previous to 1946.

The problem is that China looks extremely (can I emphasis extremely any further?) hypocritical criticizing a country for white-washing its history. This is why there is the "glass houses/throwing stones" attitude to China's actions. Look to the beam in one's own eye and all that.

Maybe we should get a group of Japanese and Chinese historians together to jointly write the histories of each country. The problem there is we might end up with a tit for tat "we'll ignore crime A if you ignore crime B" sort of thing.

fro, is it not true the Japanese attacked and occupied China since the Opium war? Is it whitewashing children by providing the shameful past their ancestors experienced. I can aggree with you there are many untold stories in Chinese text books. However, WWII atrocities was real, how would you suggest Chinese governement to cover that part of history?

Because of past histories, should China covered up Japan's atrocities by saying Japanese were their liberators from the western power? Should China say all the exploited (very mellow word here) Chiense women and deads were not caused by Japanese but they are the victims of unatural event? How do you want China sugar coat this part of shame? Do you want China sayign that Opium war and occupation of China by the 8 alliances were merely a mirage, in realty China was the Victor of all? How do you want China tell the past 200 years of shame?

Saying: There was No Shame at all? Wait! Are we arguing Japan's WWII atrocities or we are arguing something else?

Boobies:

Did you read my post before you started ranting? When you address what I wrote, I'll address any concerns or criticisms you might have.

Thank you.

FRO

Maybe we should get a group of Japanese and Chinese historians together to jointly write the histories of each country. The problem there is we might end up with a tit for tat "we'll ignore crime A if you ignore crime B" sort of thing.

This logic doesn't work unfortunetly. Consistant stubborness from all sides contributes greatly to the faltering diplomatic ties in the East Asia Pacific. Even before these bi-lateral or multi-lateral talks began, I have already guessed correctly that a compromise wouldn't happen and that my friends is very unfortunate.

FRO, sorry if I misread your post.

What are you saying? Because whitewashed some histories, China can not complain Japan's racism towards Chinese and other Asians during WWII?

Have you read Chinese history books? How do you know Chinese history books are EXTREMELY whitewashed? Did you read China whitewashed WWII parts of the history? The whole anti-Japan sentiment was about WWII atrocities and Japan's refusal to acknowledge its wrong doings.

Well, studying in the US, I know the US history books were being whitewashed how the exploitation andmistreatment of Chinese and other Asians in the textbooks. And here in the US, Chinese have been discriminated because their origins, physical sizes, and/or coming from different political system. Do you read about that in the US text books or any other articles written and exposed by American intellects and system?

Under this whitewashed system, can Americans complain their pain and shame experienced during WWII? Well, Americans don't because Japan apologized to America in full as a NATION. And America is the most powerful nation on earth, so I don't see why Japan can be a jackarse to her.

Originally Posted by Boobies

What are you saying? Because whitewashed some histories, China can not complain Japan's racism towards Chinese and other Asians during WWII?

Where, exactly, in my post did I say anything about China not being able to complain?

Originally Posted by Boobies

Have you read Chinese history books? How do you know Chinese history books are EXTREMELY whitewashed?

Two words: Tiananmen Square.

Originally Posted by Boobies

Did you read China whitewashed WWII parts of the history? The whole anti-Japan sentiment was about WWII atrocities and Japan's refusal to acknowledge its wrong doings.

In all honesty, I have no clue how much the Communist government has whitewashed its history regarding WWII. I will base my assumption that it has not told the whole truth on its lack of integrity in recent times.

Originally Posted by Boobies

Well, studying in the US, I know the US history books were being whitewashed how the exploitation andmistreatment of Chinese and other Asians in the textbooks.

I'm Canadian. We have been taught about the Head Tax, the exploitation of Chinese and other oriental labourers to build the railroads, and the internment of ethnic Japanese (and often Asians of other cultures whom authorities assumed were Japanese) during WWII. Our Governor General was born in Hong Kong (though the name Adrienne Clarkson might not tip you off to that fact) and she is very blunt and honest about the prejudice and discrimination she has faced in her lifetime. David Suzuki is probably the most recognized scientist in Canada, and he doesn't mince words when discussing his life and the suffering created by discrimination and specifically the forced relocation of Canadian citizens of Japanese extraction during WWII.

We are not proud of these black marks in our history, but we face up to them.

Can China say the same?

Originally Posted by Boobies

And here in the US, Chinese have been discriminated because their origins, physical sizes, and/or coming from different political system. Do you read about that in the US text books or any other articles written and exposed by American intellects and system?

My wife is South Korean. One of my best friends is gay. I have become well-acquainted with racism in what many would like to believe is a storybook multi-cultural society.

However, every day I read about the problems with our society, our government and our culture in every single newspaper. I see political dissent. I see powerful, grassroots movements to protect and enshrine human rights.

Can China say the same?

Originally Posted by Boobies

Under this whitewashed system, can Americans complain their pain and shame experienced during WWII?

Believe what you like, but the USA is usually the most self-critical of nations. It is a shame that much of that critical consideration has been recently lost or labelled "unpatriotic." Without recognizing flaws, one cannot repair them. Without repairing flaws, one cannot improve.

Originally Posted by Boobies

Well, Americans don't because Japan apologized to America in full as a NATION. And America is the most powerful nation on earth, so I don't see why Japan can be a jackarse to her.

Of course Japan never apologized to China. They would never apologize for . . . Oh, wait a second:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7594240/

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/as...japan.koizumi/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4471495.stm

Granted, in my mind (and I'm sure most people's) too little, too late. I think you will agree with me that for such an apology to be accepted, it must be offered with sincerity. The only way for Japan to prove its sincerity is to follow Germany's course in facing the legacy of World War II, teaching this to its children. I would not ask the modern Japanese citizen to bear guilt for the crimes of his or her ancestors, but I would demand they take responsibility to insure it never happens again, just as I must take responsibility to insure that the crimes committed by my country (and I admit they are many) will not be repeated.

Originally Posted by Cabal

This logic doesn't work unfortunetly. Consistant stubborness from all sides contributes greatly to the faltering diplomatic ties in the East Asia Pacific. Even before these bi-lateral or multi-lateral talks began, I have already guessed correctly that a compromise wouldn't happen and that my friends is very unfortunate.

Quoted for truth.

You won't hear me say this very often so take note.

I believe that concerning the atrocities committed by the Japanese against the people of China. The Chinese hold the Moral High Ground on this issue.

Add in Korea, The Philippines, British, American, Dutch, Canadien, French POW's and Civilians who were also subjected to the same treatment albiet on a smaller scale. And coupled with the Goverment of Japans Refusal to admit their role and actions China has every right to be PO'd.

OK.. here goes...

The Japanese f*cked up - royally, under Emporer Hirohito and the military complex which really ran the country thru 1945.

They committed certain acts which, under the microscope of history, have been determined to be "atrocious".

Japanese military leaders were held responsible, subject to war crimes prosecution, and punishment up to and including penalty of death.

Japan's responsibility to the rest of the world is to ensure there is no REPEAT of those actions. And that is all.

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Certainly the current government of the People's Republic of China recognizes the need to maintain a positive public national personality.

Should the current citizenry of China continually be held accountable for the millions of deaths that occurred during Mao's conquest of the Republic of China? Should the current leader of China be held responsible for Chairman Mao's appetite for young girls (and boys, if you read some reports)?

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Perhaps the Japanese might have made an apology to the legitimate government of the Republic of China, not the last major Marxist Fraud represented by the Peoples Republic.. But we will never know. Move on, get over it.

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And Russians, take care - Tom Clancy was right when he predicted the use of airliners to attack major targets in the U.S. (Debt of Honor) - You might want to shore up your frontier with China/Mongolia (The Bear and the Dragon).

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I can hear the cries in the governmental offices in Beijing - "We need elbow room!"

Perhaps the Japanese might have made an apology to the legitimate government of the Republic of China, not the last major Marxist Fraud represented by the Peoples Republic.. But we will never know. Move on, get over it.

The Republic of China did not request any apology from Japan nor demand compensation because the atrocities were committed on a smaller scale in Taiwan compared that of in China. All that is known was that the PRC is demanding an official and clear apology from the majority of the representing leadership of Japan.

Japan's responsibility to the rest of the world is to ensure there is no REPEAT of those actions. And that is all.

I wish it was this simple and straight foward. But this issue requires more in depth thinking.

Unfortunately, Nationalists extremists from Japan's Right Wing party have been pushing itself towards re-armament and are worsening the situation instead. Thus, Japan's recently revised constitution allows itself to deploy troops on foreign soil for example stationing troops in Iraq. Why can't Germany do this??? Quite simple...its most powerful Ally, the United States are searching for strategic allies and thus assisting Japan to contain China which the Neo-Conservatives in Washington are hoping to succeed in. Every existing superpower in the world, especially the United States, are more concerned in self interests and the spread of its own ideals rather than World Peace. So therefore, China is not the only country to be concerned with.

And Russians, take care - Tom Clancy was right when he predicted the use of airliners to attack major targets in the U.S. (Debt of Honor) - You might want to shore up your frontier with China/Mongolia (The Bear and the Dragon).

I don't agree. The last theory will be proven wrong in the future in my opinion. Reason is that both China and Russia share similar foreign policies: to counter US growing Influence.

I can hear the cries in the governmental offices in Beijing - "We need elbow room!"

This statement shares no connection to the main topic but if you intend to include this as your main argument for the Chinese People and the Korean People to "get over it" then you are showing "western biases".

I've seen the photos and the motion pictures of the atrocities done by Imerpial Japanese Soldiers, something considered very rare to see in the Western World. And by that, I'm begining to understand why they are angry.