Originally Posted by mmarsh

The extremist mentality is vocal and gets too much media coverage but it still remains small.

What reality are you living in. Perhaps you missed that poll I showed here it is again.

Muslim Views of Jews

...a large-scale attitudinal survey conducted by The Pew Research Center in 2006, puts the cards on the table when it comes to Muslim views of Jews.

The study revealed endemic anti-Jewish sentiment in the Muslim world.

Percentage of Muslims with Unfavorable Views of Jews:

• Jordan - 100 percent
• Lebanon - 99 percent
• Egypt - 98 percent
• Morocco - 88 percent
• Indonesia - 76 percent
• Pakistan - 74 percent
• Turkey - 60 percent

http://judaism.about.com/od/american...uslimviews.htm

That is precisely what they want you to think. Thats one of the reasons for terror attacks, to make you believe that they are more powerful than they really are. Remember the IRA, they thought they were the top dog in Northern Ireland until the people there got sick of the endless bloodshed and commanded them to negiociate with the British. Fundimentalist are powerless if they dont have public support. Which is why they hate to negociate. Negociation robs fundimentalists of their power, which is why the resort to violence in order to keep the hatred alive.

That happened with the IRA becuase of the vote in Ireland that no longer gave the IRA moral precidence to continue the conflict.

Unless you can give the Muslims the same thing, the conflict will continue, you still don't get it. For them Mohamed say to hate the Jews, unless all the Imams says this is no tlonger valid and Israel has the right to excist only then will the conflict end.

Not if all issues are worked out. The ordinary Palestineans are just as fed up of the violence as the Isrealis. I remind you that during the Arafat-Barack negiociations there was over a year and a half of calm.

This is precisely the point I'm saying that they will have peace for a short period when they get what they want. And later they will look for any excuse at all no matter how small to restart the conflict again.

That Anology doesnt work. Czechoslovakia was never part of Germany, not even the Sudatenland was. Hitler made a land grab pure and simple. Here the situation is reversed, the Isrealis grabbed land that didnt belong to them in 1967 from the Palestineans. The Palestineans want it back in order to form a new country. Will it end the conflict completely and immediatly? No. Not for at least a decade or two. But it would be a hell of a step in the right direction. Just at the misery the Isrealis have gotten for trying to keep it. If the Isrealis and Palestineans want peace they will have to sit down at the bargining table. Everybody knows this, even the terrorists.

It has everything to do with it, in that people who have destructive aims will not be satified until they have evrything.

Not only that the Palestinians weren't the ones reponsible for trying to annihilate Israel several times during their history.

It was all the other Muslims countries around the area who have done so and they are NOT Palestinians, and they did not own any of that land.SO the analogy makes perfect sense.

I told you before, this is not just a Palestinian issue, the destruction of Israel is so prevalent that all the countries in the area jump in to fuel the conflict and support the terrorist.

MM
I am sorry but - gladius is NOT the only person that believes that you support Hezbollah. You have NOT come right out and said that you do ... but ... every post you have made dealing with the problems between Israel and Hezbollah absolutely scream that you favor Hezbollah.

You may NOT have meant for them to do so ... but ... there is NO other way someone could view them. They are NOT balanced ... you place much blame on Israel without recognizing that Israel's attacks are always in response to terrorist attacks and then only after other means have failed.

The question of Israel's right to exist was somehow completely lost in your posts - Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas are in favor of wiping Israel from the face of the earth and the way you crafted your posts don't even recognize that Israel's bottom line reason for combat is that they are fighting for their very existence. What other Muslim countries think has NOTHING to do with Israel resorting to force. A safety barrier is the only hope that Israel has for the protection of the villages, towns and cities along their border.

SORRY.

Chief

Thats because people are once again equating Hezbollah with the Lebanese, as if Hezbollah is actually controlled by Beruit. We have been over this, they are not, if they did this situation would be over with by now. I have expressed my sympathy to the Lebanese, 40% of which are Christian. I expressed nothing to Hezbollah, Islamic Fundimentalists are not exactly my Idol organizations.

The reason I dont defend Isreal is because the Isrealis are wrong. Once again, the Isrealis have used the heavy handed solution to deal with a problem. When you have 724 dead Lebanese, most of which are civilians (good number of kids too) and 74 Isrealis (roughly half are military deaths) doesnt that sounds just abit lopsided for a claim self-defense. Thats 10 times as many Lebanese as Isrealis, sorry but the self-defense excuse doesnt wash anymore. The fact is this has nothing to do with self Defence, Hezbollah is absolutely no military threat to Isreal. There is is no way Hezbollah could actually destroy Isreal, this worst it could do is be a nuisence, like its doing with these Katushya attacks. The Katushya unless lauched in large salvos is not much of a threat. Nor is this about the 2 soldiers anymore, that was merely the spark to the fuse. This is about politics, about sending Syria and Iran a message. And thats understandable, but do so over the skies of Tehran and Damascus, not Lebanon. The greatest error the Isrealis make is their failure to realize that the Lebanese too are victims of Hezbollah, and this bombing is making enemies of people that could have been their allies.

http://today.reuters.com/News/Crises...ryId=L05688729

I know the arguement about warning civilians to flee, but that isnt completely true statement. How on earth do you expect to flee a combat zone with when there is a massive transport and fuel shortage and all the roads are all cut off. Not to mention the fact the Isreal is strafing the roads and bridges, and all this done AFTER the message to flee was given.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1706697.htm

Doesn't Hezbollah have quite a few seats on Lebanon's parliament/congress/council/senate/whatever they call it but you know what I mean?

Yes, hezbollah has 14 of 128 seats in the parliment of lebanon. (wikipedia)

To the above statement: That Anology doesnt work. Czechoslovakia was never part of Germany, not even the Sudatenland was. Hitler made a land grab pure and simple.
May I suggest the Member who first wrote this, reads the book "Topographia Bohemiae, Moravie et Silesia", written in the year 1650! It starts with the statement, "Bohemia is an Area in Germany!" Bohemia is now called the Czech Republic!
Looking at some of the support for Israel given above, these people must therefore also agree that Hitler was right in marching into Sudetenland. (That is certainly not my opinion,) but it would be logical.

Originally Posted by Englander2

To the above statement: That Anology doesnt work. Czechoslovakia was never part of Germany, not even the Sudatenland was. Hitler made a land grab pure and simple.
May I suggest the Member who first wrote this, reads the book "Topographia Bohemiae, Moravie et Silesia", written in the year 1650! It starts with the statement, "Bohemia is an Area in Germany!" Bohemia is now called the Czech Republic!
Looking at some of the support for Israel given above, these people must therefore also agree that Hitler was right in marching into Sudetenland. (That is certainly not my opinion,) but it would be logical.

That was me.

Good point, but Bohemia, Silisia, and Morovia didnt cover all of Czechoslavakia. If you look on a modern map you'll see the 3 regions only covers half what was then Czechoslavakia. Hitler had no legal claim to the areas known as 'Slovakia' and 'Carpathia Rus' but he still grabbed it anyway. So therefore compared to the example of Palestine its only half right, not that I think the Isrealis would want to be using Adolf Hitler as an example for territoral claims...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia


WnxRogue

True, but the Military Wing runs independent of the Political Party. The Political Party is a small part of the Lebanese Government, the military wing gets it orders from Syria and Iran. Lebanon recognizes Hezbollah as a 'resistence movement' but not members of the Lebonese armed forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezboll...cal_activities

Weapons for Israel.
Hello All,
Those who accuse me of ignoring history ( for example Chief Bones), are in this respect quite wrong. It is rather because the European countries - Not just Germany- have pushed their "Jewish Problem" on to the Arabs, that my interest in the history of Palestine has grown.
The question of Israel's right to exist, is always being raised on this thread, but completely ignored, is the fact that at the time the new state of Israel was founded, arrangements were made to protect the native population already living there. These agreements were never fulfilled, therefore it is questionable as to whether the State of Israel really legally exists.
The UN says yes, despite all these breaches of obligations. Most Arab countries were at least during 1948 of other opinion, and Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas are even today in favour of wiping Israel from the face of the earth. Therefore To say that Israel's bottom line reason for combat is that they are fighting for their very existence is quite true, but why do we forget the deal made with the powers which handed over this region, at the time Palestine was divided.
Two states had been agreed on, those who claim to be descendants of the Philistines are still, due to Israel's objections, waiting for theirs.
Currently it may be true, to say a safety barrier is the only hope that Israel has for the protection of the villages, towns and cities along their border, and this would be for all concerned better than war, but in this case, it should be placed on Israel's own territory, not on stolen land, which just leads to yet more trouble, as does the heavy handed Israeli government's attempts to deal with their neighbours. The current Israeli provocation's in Lebanon, seem to be nothing less than a deliberate endeavour to bring Syria and Iran into the war, which would once again force the USA to intervene.
My personal opinion is that Islam is a dangerous religion, but it is wrong to blame the Arabs alone for the violence . Both sides could have started to co-operate with each other years ago, if good will had been shown.
When I see that some write, the Jews were there 1200 years BC, then it would only be correct to point out, that is also true for the Philistines and many other peoples. Certainly years before this, the land was in Egyptian hands.
The half of Israel's kingdom, founded by Saul in about 1024 BC, was taken by Syria 300 years later. The rest by Babylon 586 BC. It was not until 164 BC, that the Jews took power again, just for 100 years. To claim the area was always lived in by Jews, is also only partly correct. In the year 1900 only about 600 Jews (Jishuw) lived in the region, that is less than the number who were living in the British town of Brighton at the time! Anybody placing a claim on this lovely part of the English coast?
We must try to differentiate between facts, opinions and propaganda, otherwise we shall get nowhere with these discussions.
To provide any of the sides involved in this conflict with weapons now, is to my mind a crime against humanity. Without support from the outside, they would have to talk to each other and live in peace.
As far as I can see, the only people who can gain out of such conflicts and seek to cause provocation, are those who have contracts for supplying weapons or for rebuilding countries after they have been destroyed.

Originally Posted by Englander2

Weapons for Israel.
In the year 1900 only about 600 Jews (Jishuw) lived in the region, that is less than the number who were living in the British town of Brighton at the time!

Would you mind to bother yourself with providing a source for your statement?
Thanks!

This source shows how difficult to find the correct data on this subject:
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

In answer to the borris116 question concerning my last post, is following to be said:
It is of no bother to give the source of information required. But although adequate for general discussions, the lack of details concerning day, month of the count, or whether only native, not visiting Jews are being related to, it is unlikely that this souce is suitable for educational or historical studies.
The statement, " In the year 1900 only about 600 Jews (Jishuw) lived in the region, that is less than the number who were living in the British town of Brighton at the time!" is based on a summary of events and names concerning the creation of the new state of Israel. The summary is part of a collection of documents privately obtained over a number of years, it has itself not been published, but is an important part of the collection which includes:
The "Palestine Mandate of the league of Nations" Written in English.
The "Mandate Period" written by Samik K. Fasoun and Christina Zacharia, also in English
(These authors just refer to a small native Jewish community).
The following articles from the German educational brochure "Geschichte lernen" No. 83 (2001)
"Ein Land-zwei Voelker" by Dietmar von Reeken. In German.
"Palaestina zu Beginn der zionistischen einwanderung" by Alexeander Flares. In German.
" Der Unabhangigkeitskrieg Israels und das Schicksal der Palaestinenser" by Mathias Pophanken
as well as " Zionismus" by Erik Pelry, also in German.

Further of interest, to those seeking more than run of the mill literature on these themes, is also the German book " Der zweite Polnische Madagaska Plan," but this will probably only be found in university libraries.
I hope this answer will help the collection of true data, which has been said, is difficult to find.