[quote="redcoat"]
US Department of State

As the Ghent negotiations suggested, the real causes of the war of 1812, were not merely commerce and neutral rights, but also western expansion, relations with American Indians, and territorial control of North America.

I didn't bother with that part of the link because it cuts both ways. It says the aim of the war was to gain greater territory in North America. Great Britain failed to achieve this goal and so did the United States. Neither side came out of it with any greater control of North America than they started with. As stated, the United States and Great Britain both were pretty obvious about this. You don't invade Maryland and the coast of Louisiana if all they were trying to do is maintain contol of Canada without a care for the rest. Since neither side made any gains, neither side achieved a victory.

I'm happy to admit that the United States was in over their head. They had no chance of returning the favor against Britain and burning London. The USA was lucky to come out of it without having lost any territory.

As to the American People, the leaders of the nation learned that they had less control than they thought. They needed to have the American public opinion already in favor of their unstated goals. The American People were with them in believing their rights were being violated. The American People were unaware that conquest of Canada was to be an important goal for the war. It lead to the attempts being only half-hearted at best. The US also learned that war with a European power was a lot harder than they thought it would be.

The UK learned that the USA was willing to stick up for itself and Europe at large took the USA a bit more seriously thereafter. That is a victory of sorts.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

The UK learned that the USA was willing to stick up for itself and Europe at large took the USA a bit more seriously thereafter. That is a victory of sorts.

Nearly 20,000 dead (12-15,000 American and 5,000 British) is an expensive way to prove a point

I am going to have to disagree with you on those numbers. I went to 3 websites and the numbers were all the same for the Americans. It was a bit harded for to find british numbers.

American

4,505 wounded
2,260 dead

British

3,679 wounded
1,600 dead

Those are just battle casualties. It appears that the US army suffered a large number of deaths through disease during the war as well,
Http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warsusa.htm

I went around that site a bit. He did not specifically say how he got those figures for the war of 1812. I believe that the accuracy of those figures can be argued.

A few of the sites I went to said that many of the doctors at the time did not keep records on the people that died from disease. Other sites said that the Casualty numbers were estimates because "non-battle deaths not known for these wars"

I wish the creator of that website cited his references like good authors. Good authors cite each figure with a source. The sources on that site are all massed together with no links to each figure. There is no way to verify his figures without extensive research.

there was nothing to win, but id say the US because they were 2 to 0 with britain

If anyone has ever heard the song "The War of 1812" by Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie (www.deadtroll.com) then you'll know it's apparent what Canadian's think.And not having learned much about the war itself, I voted that no one won. As, I've always been under the distinct impresion no one ever did win.