The reason it's broadcasted is as an attempt to use it as a deterrent as well, not just to shove it in folks faces. If it doesn't look aggressive than the terrorists will assume it's not and give them better opportunities of succeeding.

Wolfen:

Just like when certain folks claim how terrible white folks were to black folks with slavery and all of that stuff and how we owe them an apology, I always think to myself, show me one person alive today that was a slave owner or a slave. I didn't have a single thing to do with slavery. just as not a single soul alive today had a thing to do with the Crusades. I owe no apologies for either.

(Don't piss off the people you're supposed to help.)

now THAT is signature material right there, also the best idea I've heard since 1985

No matter whats done, folks will belly ache.
Like they said in the Corps, when they stop complaining, that's when you need to worry.

In the Navy a Bit**ing sailor was a happy sailor

Alright... I think I just exhausted my ability to reason for one night.

Originally Posted by wolfen

The thing we all have with the middle east we can thank King Arthur and the crusades for, for some reason the Muslims have been trying to kill us all ever since somebody tried to ram Catholic religion down their throat,

Umm, King Arthur actually lived (if he ever lived at all) long before any of Crusades and the Crusades actually have very little to do with the modern issues between Muslims (or Arabs anyway) and the rest of the world. What drives the Muslims/Arabs crazy is that the nations that make up the First World are non-Muslim and successful while theirs are obviously not. Without the revenue from oil and natural gas, most Arab states would be miserable backwaters - and some of them are even with the money!

If, as they believe and insist, that they are the Chosen People of God and Mohammed was the Final Prophet, then THEY should be running the world and be far more successful than any infidels or combination thereof. But they are obviously not and have not been successful for several centuries. Don't believe me, try reading What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East by Bernard Lewis (or almost anything else he has written, the man is a really tremendous Middle East Scholar)

Originally Posted by wolfen

I think really got worse when we started staying there and never leaving, they want to be left alone, I say after its all one, leave those people alone.

Umm, the last I looked the British left their Middle East colonies, protectorates etc. in 50 to 40 years ago. The US never had any and while we supported the Shah (which the Iranians are apparently still mad about) we had no forces in the region until we were invited into Saudi Arabia by that government (we also helped liberated Kuwait from a fellow Muslim (and total creep) named Sadam Hussein, which apparently is a crime as well ). That's a large part of what drove Osama bin Ladin to found Al Qaeda if I recall correctly - the presence of non-Muslim troops (US and others) in Saudi Arabia. Their crime was to be there and help defend that country, even though most of them were far away from any holy sites and they took (sometimes ridiculous) pains to not offend their hosts.

The other thing that drives some of them crazy is the US (and sometimes, Europe’s) support for Israel - another non-Muslim, and successful, state and the only fully functional democracy in the region, besides Turkey (which is a secular Muslim state).

Originally Posted by wolfen

All we need is a president that will say, were gonna leave you alone if you leave us alone, and actually do it if you notice they have no respect for anybody who leaves before job is finished

If only it were that simple. Remember the radical elements attacked us (the West). You are totally correct about your last point however, strength is respected, which is something prospective US Presidential candidates should think hard about before they decide to cut and run

That's good info. Not a lot of the stuff to we get to hear often enough.
What I always had the impression of was that there are groups out there who's sole claim to power is the hatred of the West. It's their source of legitimacy. A pullout won't make that go away.

Originally Posted by Gunner13

Umm, King Arthur actually lived (if he ever lived at all) long before any of Crusades and the Crusades actually have very little to do with the modern issues between Muslims (or Arabs anyway) and the rest of the world. What drives the Muslims/Arabs crazy is that the nations that make up the First World are non-Muslim and successful while theirs are obviously not. Without the revenue from oil and natural gas, most Arab states would be miserable backwaters - and some of them are even with the money!

If, as they believe and insist, that they are the Chosen People of God and Mohammed was the Final Prophet, then THEY should be running the world and be far more successful than any infidels or combination thereof. But they are obviously not and have not been successful for several centuries. Don't believe me, try reading What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East by Bernard Lewis (or almost anything else he has written, the man is a really tremendous Middle East Scholar)



Umm, the last I looked the British left their Middle East colonies, protectorates etc. in 50 to 40 years ago. The US never had any and while we supported the Shah (which the Iranians are apparently still mad about) we had no forces in the region until we were invited into Saudi Arabia by that government (we also helped liberated Kuwait from a fellow Muslim (and total creep) named Sadam Hussein, which apparently is a crime as well ). That's a large part of what drove Osama bin Ladin to found Al Qaeda if I recall correctly - the presence of non-Muslim troops (US and others) in Saudi Arabia. Their crime was to be there and help defend that country, even though most of them were far away from any holy sites and they took (sometimes ridiculous) pains to not offend their hosts.

The other thing that drives some of them crazy is the US (and sometimes, Europe’s) support for Israel - another non-Muslim, and successful, state and the only fully functional democracy in the region, besides Turkey (which is a secular Muslim state).




If only it were that simple. Remember the radical elements attacked us (the West). You are totally correct about your last point however, strength is respected, which is something prospective US Presidential candidates should think hard about before they decide to cut and run

The only thing I can legitimately argue with you on is the fact that the US was in the Arab country's way before the Kuwait invasion, what the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan the CIA armed Osama Bin Laden so he could fight the Soviets, we were there before that too drilling for oil. We've been there longer that most people think, I have no idea about what England does, I don't even try keeping up with the English, my kids are enough.