Originally Posted by 03USMC

Rudeness yes. Infraction of published law.Yes.

I'm looking it from a different perspective than you are.

If I had gotten that call. By his phoning the media and then waiting waiting for the media before acting. I as the responding officer can more than articulate in my report that he acted with intent and or premeditation to commit a statutory violation. In those circumstances I would have no choice but to arrest him. Whether or not I agreed with or was supportive of his point of view. Or whether or not he was acting against a breach of the law in regards to improper display of the flag.

I'm not saying that it in anyway decreases the violation. But I see nowhere where he contacted the authorities. Marsh had the best answer call the cops let them speak to him. If he refuses (he probably wouldn't if it was done right) then pursue it thru the district attorneys office and let them sort it out with the US District Attorney.

And there is the folly with mandatory arrest laws that take your discretion away.

The man stopped a crime. No different than if I shot a bank robber or punched my wife in the nose if she was wailing on me. But in these scenarios (in AZ) you'd have me in cuffs or you'd be out of a job. And that is nonsense.

Want to fly the Mexican flag? Back to Mexico with you. Why did you come here? (You is generic, 03, not directed at you in any way). I wouldn't move to Ireland and disrespect them like that - and, damnit, plain and simple, too much blood has been spilled for our flag to watch some immigrant dishonor it because it's the in thing to do in support of his illegal constituents that want America as a new Mexico.

He should have burned it, like they do here to ours. Turn about is fair play. Want respect? Give respect.

Stop crawling over our borders like fleas on a rabid dog, speak English, stop burning our flag, stop supporting FELONIOUS activity with parades to get amnesty. START being Americans. Or GTFO. And I have an 11.5 size boot to help the first volunteer.

Tired of this crap.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I think the point being made is why contact the media before doing something.

If you see something that infuriates you to the point of action do you:
A) Get a sudden rush of blood to the head and go sort it out?
B) Check the statute books and and then send an email to the local newspaper?
C) Phone the media, wait for them to arrive and then carry out an action before making a patriotic speech?

I am betting the the answer from most people will be A not C.

C for me, bro.

Sometimes the sheeple need to see a real man in action before they'll get off their butts and do something. But Survivor is on tonight, which is of course more important

If the media reported a TENTH of our outrage as they do for the Hispanic community then just maybe people would crawl out of their caccoons and realize that this is a serious issue.

Dude probably didn't want 50 Mexicans coming out of the bar beating on him like they used to do in my school - that's why he called the media: witnesses. I'd have done the same. If they came after him, his message is conveyed with much more impact as these CRIMINALS will be on television (assuming illegals were there - like you, I don't know).

Except I would have burned the flag and peed on it to put it out. This is America. They do it to ours. Don't like it done to yours? GTFO or don't fly it. DUH.

If cutting down that flag is a crime, it damn sure shouldn't be. That's not what people give their lives to defend.

Originally Posted by AZ_Infantry

C for me, bro.

Sometimes the sheeple need to see a real man in action before they'll get off their butts and do something. But Survivor is on tonight, which is of course more important

If the media reported a TENTH of our outrage as they do for the Hispanic community then just maybe people would crawl out of their caccoons and realize that this is a serious issue.

Dude probably didn't want 50 Mexicans coming out of the bar beating on him like they used to do in my school - that's why he called the media: witnesses. I'd have done the same. If they came after him, his message is conveyed with much more impact as these CRIMINALS will be on television (assuming illegals were there - like you, I don't know).

Except I would have burned the flag and peed on it to put it out. This is America. They do it to ours. Don't like it done to yours? GTFO or don't fly it. DUH.

If cutting down that flag is a crime, it damn sure shouldn't be. That's not what people give their lives to defend.

So for you its more politics than patriotism because I know in matters of patriotism I tend to react first which would be A.

Ok so heres heres another question had the bar owner decided that the guy chopping down his flags was a serious threat to his safety (being armed, trespassing and attacking his property) and decided to defend himself with the shotgun under his bed what would the legal outcome have been?

Now this may just be my "liberal side" coming out but heres is how I personally would have handled it.

Approach the bar owner and point out the problem and assuming he realised his mistake gone about my business, however had the bar owner told me to go take a flying leap I would then have pointed out the folly of bad publicity and his bank balance (businesses tend to cater to the masses to improve their cash flow).

If that didn't work...
I would have left, contacted the police and told them to sort it out and soon after that contacted the local media to ensure that he got the required publicity (note the previous statement about cash flow).

If that didn't work...

I would have carried out the actions he did, but first note that there are two attempts to solve the problem in an intelligent manner before the Neanderthal in me pops out.

Originally Posted by MontyB

So for you its more politics than patriotism because I know in matters of patriotism I tend to react first which would be A.

Ok so heres heres another question had the bar owner decided that the guy chopping down his flags was a serious threat to his safety (being armed, trespassing and attacking his property) and decided to defend himself with the shotgun under his bed what would the legal outcome have been?

Now this may just be my "liberal side" coming out but heres is how I personally would have handled it.

Approach the bar owner and point out the problem and assuming he realised his mistake gone about my business, however had the bar owner told me to go take a flying leap I would then have pointed out the folly of bad publicity and his bank balance (businesses tend to cater to the masses to improve their cash flow).

If that didn't work...
I would have left, contacted the police and told them to sort it out and soon after that contacted the local media to ensure that he got the required publicity (note the previous statement about cash flow).

If that didn't work...

I would have carried out the actions he did, but first note that there are two attempts to solve the problem in an intelligent manner before the Neanderthal in me pops out.

It's more complicated than that, Monty. To me, patriotism and politics go hand-in-hand. It's not enough to suggest one exists without the other.

I also would have spoken with the owner first - but I would have had the media there when I did so. The conversation would have went as follows, cameras rolling:

Sir, with all due respect to your allegiance to your homeland, this is America. Flying any flag above ours is a crime. Take it down and fix it or I will right here and now on public tv. I didn't lose friends fighting for this country for you to disrespect it as you are doing, intentionally or not. So I am asking you nicely just this one time to fix the issue right now. Otherwise I will fix it.

Perhaps this is my conservative side speaking, but...

If he didn't IMMEDIATELY correct it, I'd forgoe the police and hack it down, burn it, and pee on it. Then I'd go to jail and then I'd be on Bill O'Reilly telling my side of the story and why this country is screwed when I have no rights to defend those who bled for that flag. They going to convict me for being a patriot when they've never listened to us in the first place? Go ahead. Shame on the cop that slaps the cuffs on.

And having a knife may scare people in your country, but we have gun rights here. If the bar owner has a shotgun (his legal right if he's not illegal or catering to illegals, but ILLEGAL if alcohol is served) and shot me when I never threatened him with said knife, my family would be set and he'd be in prison forever.

But if he pulled said shotgun on ME he'd have 2 full mags of 230-grain .45 goodness ventilating him before he ever made up his mind to use his gun.

I realize that it's difficult for other countries to understand our issues, but this illegal immigration thing has most of this country ready to take up arms against our government and take matters into our own hands. Don't want vigalantee justice? Enforce the f-ing laws this country was founded on, close the f-ing borders, and stop pushing men like me and the guy that cut the flag down.

Simple.

Don't take this the wrong way but the way you explained it made it come across as being more interested in your 15 minutes of fame than carrying out and act of patriotism.

How can you argue that you want the laws of the nation enforced when you are prepared to ignore them and break them to make your point?

As far as not understanding your laws and problems well thats partially true however I would bet that I understand better than most given that I have family and property in Arizona on top of this I was educated there and spend between 3-4 months in the country every year so while I certainly don't claim to be an expert on the place I do have an understanding of the issues.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Don't take this the wrong way but the way you explained it made it come across as being more interested in your 15 minutes of fame than carrying out and act of patriotism.

How can you argue that you want the laws of the nation enforced when you are prepared to ignore them and break them to make your point?

As far as not understanding your laws and problems well thats partially true however I would bet that I understand better than most given that I have family and property in Arizona on top of this I was educated there and spend between 3-4 months in the country every year so while I certainly don't claim to be an expert on the place I do have an understanding of the issues.

Differences aside, next time you're in AZ look me up. I would be proud to buy you a beer.

I never meant to dismiss your understanding of the issues, only to describe the way we feel living with them. In that, yes, it is different. But in the end, we're all friends here (or should be), and my home is open to you. I'd enjoy sitting with you over a platter of hot wings and a pitcher of (cheap American) cold beer.

*offers handshake*

Right. We don't dislike someone for disagreeing with us. We dislike people who disrespect us.

Originally Posted by AZ_Infantry

Differences aside, next time you're in AZ look me up. I would be proud to buy you a beer.

I never meant to dismiss your understanding of the issues, only to describe the way we feel living with them. In that, yes, it is different. But in the end, we're all friends here (or should be), and my home is open to you. I'd enjoy sitting with you over a platter of hot wings and a pitcher of (cheap American) cold beer.

*offers handshake*

Unfortunately we just got back to New Zealand (March 8th) from the Christmas with the Inlaws trip, for the record I never actually thought you did dismiss my understanding of things and I freely admit that spending a few months a year somewhere is not the same as living there.

As far as cheap beer goes I am a Kiwi we generally don't care what we drink.

Originally Posted by AZ_Infantry

And there is the folly with mandatory arrest laws that take your discretion away.

The man stopped a crime. No different than if I shot a bank robber or punched my wife in the nose if she was wailing on me. But in these scenarios (in AZ) you'd have me in cuffs or you'd be out of a job. And that is nonsense.

Want to fly the Mexican flag? Back to Mexico with you. Why did you come here? (You is generic, 03, not directed at you in any way). I wouldn't move to Ireland and disrespect them like that - and, damnit, plain and simple, too much blood has been spilled for our flag to watch some immigrant dishonor it because it's the in thing to do in support of his illegal constituents that want America as a new Mexico.

He should have burned it, like they do here to ours. Turn about is fair play. Want respect? Give respect.

Stop crawling over our borders like fleas on a rabid dog, speak English, stop burning our flag, stop supporting FELONIOUS activity with parades to get amnesty. START being Americans. Or GTFO. And I have an 11.5 size boot to help the first volunteer.

Tired of this crap.

Agree. I do have discreation but there are times such as in this scenerio that no matter how much I agree with the action the law has to enforced with an eye to the totality of the circumstance.

If you shot a bank robber here. You wouldn't go in cuffs. You'd be investigated and interviewed and probably be cut loose with a job offer provided the shoot was clean. The DV issue. were it me you and your wife would go.

I agree with your other sentiments. Like I said I look at this scenerio and see a laundry list of headaches I'd rathar not deal with.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Right. We don't dislike someone for disagreeing with us. We dislike people who disrespect us.

That, in my opinion is the most quotable quote I've seen on this forum since I joined.

I've never heard it before, but I'm sure I will use it in the future. You should put your name to that.

Redneck, You'd be racking up the rep points if I were allowed to give you one.