Seems pretty clear to me he was talking about eliminating a terrorist threat. Nobody said anything about gas chambers.

Stauro, can you, with 100% certainty and guarantee, tell us that there is absolutely no form of anything that can fall under the definition of "torture" going on in Spain regarding the ETA?

No I'm for what Spain does with ETA... hell it's neccessary, so that's not the point. The question is the double standard. Can you REALLY guarantee this?

Check out this report from Amnesty International.
http://hawaii.indymedia.org/mail.php?id=5300
I think they're a biased lot, basically a Stockholm Syndrome on steriods, but hey, sources like these have been hounding away at the American reputation for years.

This article is actually on the UK's Amnesty International official site.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/14388.shtml

And something else...
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/cat/dec...atD-Spain2.htm

And this was from a 2 minutes search.

seems pretty clear to me that he was talking about ETA, rather than building gas chambers for all the basques

Thanks chewie, it is great that some body understands. Charge & 03: your compresion of written english is pretty bad. If you read my post again in an objetive way and in its context you will understand the meaning. I don´t want this topic to become into a dialectial discussion, so if this is gonna be your only argument please find another topic.

Stauro, can you, with 100% certainty and guarantee, tell us that there is absolutely no form of anything that can fall under the definition of "torture" going on in Spain regarding the ETA?

I can guarantee you with 100% of success that torture hapened( there are many high range militars in jail concerning the torture and murder in Itxaurrondo) and that it might happen oftenly. Spain is not a perfect place like US, if the police catch a terrorist that they day before put a bomb a blew up a car with dad,mam and daugther they will probably take the s*it out of him. The diference is that we recognise that it hapens, put the people in jail and try to solve it so it will never happen again. You guys have serious problems to pronounce the word torture, and I can guarantee you with 100% success that it also happens in US. Can you guarantee me that it does not happen?? i will do also a 2 minute search and see what international amnisty says...may be you do not wanna hear.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Charge_7

I didn't think there was anything wrong with it either other than it being obviously duplicitous. (i.e. "it's okay for us but not for you")

I think you are being somewhat selective in the words you select for alternative meanings, it is very clear that he meant that ETA will cease to exist as a combative unit and by the looks of it through the development of a political movement rather than through physical extinction.

I will back Chewie on this one.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I think you are being somewhat selective in the words you select for alternative meanings, it is very clear that he meant that ETA will cease to exist as a combative unit and by the looks of it through the development of a political movement rather than through physical extinction.

I will back Chewie on this one.

thanks monty, i needed a litle bit of support!

And you're being very "selective" in your interpretation of my comprehension (that's the word not "compresion") of written English. I didn't mean to infer one way or the other about "extinguish" being meant as killing the Basques off or eliminating them as a threat by incarceration. What I meant was you feel it's perfectly justifiable to remove a terrorist threat from existence when it applies to you, but feel free to condemn those who do not fit your "liberal" thinking that are doing exactly the same thing in removing a threat to themselves. Again I say you are duplicitous. So keep on spinning.

he has already stated that it's not the capturing of terrorists by the US, but of the TORTURING of the captives, that is the issue here.

And we've already said that whatever you want to call "torture" has been identified and the very few individuals have been caught and punished. They were rogues and it was never a sanctified policy of the US military, but you go on and on as if it was.

Originally Posted by Charge_7

And you're being very "selective" in your interpretation of my comprehension (that's the word not "compresion") of written English. I didn't mean to infer one way or the other about "extinguish" being meant as killing the Basques off or eliminating them as a threat by incarceration. What I meant was you feel it's perfectly justifiable to remove a terrorist threat from existence when it applies to you, but feel free to condemn those who do not fit your "liberal" thinking that are doing exactly the same thing in removing a threat to themselves. Again I say you are duplicitous. So keep on spinning.

For me it is always great removing terrorist, but with the correct methods.
Thanks for the gramma leason.

Stauro, can you, with 100% certainty and guarantee, tell us that there is absolutely no form of anything that can fall under the definition of "torture" going on in Spain regarding the ETA?

Sorry, I almost forget, while the PSOE(Socialist Party) was in the power during the 80-90s in Spain we had a terrorist group of the state. They were called GAL(Antiterrorist Liberal Group).The kidnaped, torture and killed ETA members. Many members are now in prision, at least 15, including a general of the Civil Guard

There you go Stauro. And as a result what happened? ETA shrunk like a lump of foam in a bathtub.
You guys tortured and got results. When people were found guilty of either torture or inproper conduct they were jailed.
As for the Abu Grahib thing, okay let's say it's really classified as torture. In that case this would be the most softest of all tortures in history. The SOFTEST. And the people who were doing this were either forced to resign or were court martialed.
So WHY are you pressing this issue?