Originally Posted by Doppleganger

This isn't exactly true. Germany never would have been defeated without ALL the allies working together. That's a fact.

Just to say something about supplies, in particular Lend-Lease. The only vital things the Soviets received (and they were absolutely vital) were railroad tracks, locomoties, radios and trucks. All other items, including AFVs and airplanes, the Soviets could have done without.

So the Soviets would have been victorious without tanks? Not likely, they may have been able to defend themselves, but not defeat Germany.

Originally Posted by Damien435

So the Soviets would have been victorious without tanks? Not likely, they may have been able to defend themselves, but not defeat Germany.

I think you misread what I said. I was referring to the AFVs and airplanes they received as part of the Lend-Lease agreement. The Soviets had no problems making their own tanks even with the upheaval of their factories to beyond the Urals.

But they recieved most of their Iron Ore used to make the steel that made the tanks from the United States, and something like 89% of their oil came from the US Lend Lease program.

Originally Posted by Damien435

But they recieved most of their Iron Ore used to make the steel that made the tanks from the United States, and something like 89% of their oil came from the US Lend Lease program.

Those shipments helped in a big way in 1941/42. There's no doubt that the USSR would have found it much harder to repel the German invasion. They may have even been critical at that time. In 1945 though it was a different matter. I don't know much about iron ore but I do know the USSR was well able to meet all it's own requirements for oil.

Yeah but even if they had oil they wouldn't have had Iron ore coming in to build new weapons. Plus Oil areas can easily be taken out with a good enough bombing.

Well you have to take a look at it this way the Russians did in fact meet thier iron ore production, because the massive amounts of tanks they produced, but it's the design of the steel mills that was the deciding factor, the steel mills were designed by american engineers hence the russians having a better grade of steel than the German alloys.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Those shipments helped in a big way in 1941/42. There's no doubt that the USSR would have found it much harder to repel the German invasion. They may have even been critical at that time. In 1945 though it was a different matter. I don't know much about iron ore but I do know the USSR was well able to meet all it's own requirements for oil.

I'm not sure what the level of development was at that time, but as of 1980, the USSR was the single greatest producer of Iron and Steel on the planet. They have immense resources in this department and more abundant iron supply than any country.

their system is often inefficient, but on the whole level better than the us system: the world's biggest steel mill, located at novabrousrkask, has 50,000 enployees, while the us's biggest steel mill, which produces some 4/5 of the soviet one, employs only 7000

this socalled fill up the job space system virtually produced no hobos and no unemployment

however said, the soviets scareed their environment for life

Yeah alot of the Russian land scape has been damaged from all the arms races they did....they say in some spots thier are like giant pieces of rusting steel and things like that, however I have only saw a few pictures of it.



However America could have always taken the steel factories out.

Originally Posted by Flak88

their system is often inefficient, but on the whole level better than the us system: the world's biggest steel mill, located at novabrousrkask, has 50,000 enployees, while the us's biggest steel mill, which produces some 4/5 of the soviet one, employs only 7000

this socalled fill up the job space system virtually produced no hobos and no unemployment

however said, the soviets scareed their environment for life

Well you see the American steel mills are all automated.