Originally Posted by mmarsh

No offense intended to ya'all, but it sounds like we are still trying to justify the reason as to why we are there, -other than the real reason which is OIL. And that doesn't get mentioned in the media either.

Sad, very sad, but,... unfortunately it does seem to be true.

Originally Posted by Wolf

Well if the damn enviromentalists would let us drill on our own land, we wouldn't be having this problem.

Fine, we'll start with your backyard.

Originally Posted by The Other Guy

Fine, we'll start with your backyard.

Start in mine. But if they find anything I want my fair share of the mineral rights.

Originally Posted by Wolf

Well if the damn enviromentalists would let us drill on our own land, we wouldn't be having this problem.

You know I generally hate environmentalists but in this case they are doing you a favour...
At some point in our future we are going to have to leave oil behind whether its because of alternatives, its too expensive or because we have run out we will stop using it so the more difficulties the "environmentalists" throw in the way the sooner that process will happen.

I think its all time we faced the fact that even if all the restrictions on drilling were removed and we could get enough oil to drive the price back to where it was 10 years ago it would only be a short term event and 20 years after we had achieved it we would be paying 10 time the amount we are now.

Essentially if we had any vision for the future we wouldn't be trying to strip mine the earth for 6 months worth of gas we would be demanding investment in viable alternative replacements.

Originally Posted by Wolf

Well if the damn enviromentalists would let us drill on our own land, we wouldn't be having this problem.

No, the quantity isn't even close.

Sort of an off-topic side note, but while we've migrated to oil I'd like to hit this:

Why can't an American company make a hybrid that works well? There are regular Japanese cars that get better mileage than the new Malibu Hybrid. And the Prius gets twice the mileage.

What gives GM? Did you destroy everything to do with your EV-1, or just the cars?

If you look, the numbers we have lost and the time we have been there in terms of wars past is not even a drop in the bucket. We have lost more in one day in wars past than we have since we kicked OIF off KIA wise.

Its funny though, we in america fuss about gas prices yet compaired to europe and asia our gas is cheap lol.
I honestly think taking into account the inflation of the dollar back when gas was 30 cents a gallon vs today it would probably come close to even.


And if it comes down to oil being the only reason we invaded iraq (which it wasnt), its human nature and has been done since time has began. Survival of the fittest, the stronger taking the weaker for gain? People scream injustice, but in the end the majority dont care after the tv and newpapers are outa mind and they are standing at the gas pump... they just want their gas cheaper thats the bottom line to the average joe on the street.

I seen it put best in a photo taken in iraq of words wrote on the wall of an abandoned house... "American is not at war....Marines are at war.... America is at the mall" in the end the consumer just wants more to consume however it has to be gotten.

Originally Posted by doc

I seen it put best in a photo taken in iraq of words wrote on the wall of an abandoned house... "American is not at war....Marines are at war.... America is at the mall" in the end the consumer just wants more to consume however it has to be gotten.

I like what you say, there's a ring of truth about it all. It's unfortunate, but oh, so true.

Originally Posted by MontyB

You know I generally hate environmentalists but in this case they are doing you a favour...
At some point in our future we are going to have to leave oil behind whether its because of alternatives, its too expensive or because we have run out we will stop using it so the more difficulties the "environmentalists" throw in the way the sooner that process will happen.

I think its all time we faced the fact that even if all the restrictions on drilling were removed and we could get enough oil to drive the price back to where it was 10 years ago it would only be a short term event and 20 years after we had achieved it we would be paying 10 time the amount we are now.

Essentially if we had any vision for the future we wouldn't be trying to strip mine the earth for 6 months worth of gas we would be demanding investment in viable alternative replacements.

I agree with this appraisal. The answer to the oil and its associated problems has to be motivated by necessity. So easing a way around the current position is very short-term.

America, driven by necessity, can take the transport situation to where it should be - ie. not reliant on oil.

Fuel here costs us in excess of $10 per gallon, mostly accounted for in tax, so we have the necessity; the difference is that our government like it that way - they are at war with the car and wish to stop the man in the street from using it. So, unfortunately, in our case here, necessity has not become a motivation. I believe this attitude locks us into a primitive position of non-progress.

America has to make it happen.

Economics - Politics - Military
Are all linked.

Also when it comes to statistics, percentages are the most misleading.

A sad thing is, it seems like the people are more sick of actually seeing it on the news rather than the fact that a war is going on.