Originally Posted by Wolf

So, from what I understand, you're saying that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are responsible for all of 'this'?

Imho it is so.

Originally Posted by Wolf

And, somehow, in the process of "killing eachother" we became targets, which was made obvious to the world on Sept. 11, 2001. One might say that our place in the conflict(s) of the Middle East, was inevitable.

I am not sure will withdrawal of Coalition forces from Iraq be dangerous for entire world. But for sure it will be dangerous for very Iraqis.

Originally Posted by Wolf

And, somehow, in the process of "killing eachother" we became targets, which was made obvious to the world on Sept. 11, 2001. One might say that our place in the conflict(s) of the Middle East, was inevitable.

How many times has it been said that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH AL QAEDA...

Originally Posted by The Other Guy

How many times has it been said that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH AL QAEDA...

Show me where I brought-up the name 'Saddam Hussein'.

Originally Posted by Wolf

So, from what I understand, you're saying that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are responsible for all of 'this'?


And, somehow, in the process of "killing eachother" we became targets, which was made obvious to the world on Sept. 11, 2001. One might say that our place in the conflict(s) of the Middle East, was inevitable.

Mankind are experts at destroying that which is precious in life. Peace is no exception, and there's no one side to blame.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11/2001. Iraq is Bush's sideshow to uphold his Dad's honor & is making us less safe here in the US, & taking troop away from the fight against Al Quieda in Afganistan & Pakistan. Stop buying the lies!

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

If anything Boomer... it's not about being world police, it's about cleaning up the mess we started.
We are responsible, one way or another, with what is happening in Iraq today. We can't just say "we messed up, screw the Iraqis" and leave.

Ah thats the Pottery Barn example (You break it, you own it).

Unfortunately it doesn't work in Foreign Policy. We are responsible for the mess, but that doesn't mean we are the best suited for fixing it. As a matter of fact our continued military presence in the Middle East is so destablizing to the area all we are doing is make the problem worse, not better. And now we have problems in Iran, Syria, Lebanon these are are hotspots that have been dormant for decades.

Take al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was never in Iraq pre-Saddam. The reason they are now in Iraq is becaused they followed us there. There was recently a big Bust in Paris of Muslim extremists trying to recruit French Arabs to fight us in Iraq. Arab terrorist groups recruiting in Europe was unheard of prior to our invasion.

You have to understand these people (the arabs), from the crusades, to Napoleon invasion of Egypt, to the British expedition in Khartoum. They do not like western Armies on their lands.

There are ways to help (money, training, etc) but security has to be done by the Arabs.

Originally Posted by Wolf

Show me where I brought-up the name 'Saddam Hussein'.

You didn't bring it up anywhere, but Iraq is the subject matter of this thread...

Originally Posted by Devil505

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11/2001. Iraq is Bush's sideshow to uphold his Dad's honor & is making us less safe here in the US, & taking troop away from the fight against Al Quieda in Afganistan & Pakistan. Stop buying the lies!

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Had nothing to do with an oppresive, totalitarian dictator that murdered and tortured at whim, 80,000+ gassed Kurds (thought to be Iranians), or refusing to comply with United Nation demands. Nothing to do with UN weapons inspectors reporting that Hussein was simply transferring WMDs from location to location. Or that Iraq constantly violated the no-fly zone established.

Just a side show. Gotcha.

Want to put the blame on someone? Blame Mr. Clinton for pulling us out the first time while the JCOS screamed that we needed to stay and finish the job. The US showed its lack of resolve back in 1991/1992.

This isn't "Bush's war." It's just mopping up after an incompetent president made a mockery of his position as the CIC by pulling us out before our mission was complete because he's too ignorant to know anything about military tactics and too stupid to listen to those that do know.

Stop drinking the Internet Kool-Aid and read some history.

Originally Posted by AZ_Infantry

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Had nothing to do with an oppresive, totalitarian dictator that murdered and tortured at whim, 80,000+ gassed Kurds (thought to be Iranians), or refusing to comply with United Nation demands. Nothing to do with UN weapons inspectors reporting that Hussein was simply transferring WMDs from location to location. Or that Iraq constantly violated the no-fly zone established.

The world is full of oppresive dictators. Not my damn problem! (I thought "Nation Building" was something Republicans wanted to avoid??). Iraq was totaly controled & no danger to me (in the US) at all.



Just a side show. Gotcha.

Want to put the blame on someone? Blame Mr. Clinton for pulling us out the first time while the JCOS screamed that we needed to stay and finish the job. The US showed its lack of resolve back in 1991/1992.

How about going back to R' Reagan who ran from Lebanon after the Marine barracks were blown up!

This isn't "Bush's war." It's just mopping up after an incompetent president made a mockery of his position as the CIC by pulling us out before our mission was complete because he's too ignorant to know anything about military tactics and too stupid to listen to those that do know.

Stop drinking the Internet Kool-Aid and read some history.

When you say "incompetent president " are you talking about R. Reagan or George HW Bush? .....As far as "drinking the Internet Kool-Aid "....I'd rather drink that than what our present fearless leader (you know, the one who's Daddy got him out of serving in Vietnam but has no problem sending our kids to die to save his legeacy) used to drink! (& probably still does)

Originally Posted by Devil505

When you say "incompetent president " are you talking about R. Reagan or George HW Bush? .....As far as "drinking the Internet Kool-Aid "....I'd rather drink that than what our present fearless leader (you know, the one who's Daddy got him out of serving in Vietnam but has no problem sending our kids to die to save his legeacy) used to drink! (& probably still does)

My friend, you are king of the Red Herring fallacy.

Clinton was who I was referring to with the incompetent comment. Not only did Clinton NOT serve, he was busy being an adulterer while we had boys and girls with boots in the sand that HE sent. Let's face it, no politician is outside of the corruption that big government provides.

But in the midst of your fallacy, you failed to see the forest for the trees. My point was that it isn't Bush's war. It's Clinton's. HE is the one who sent us in to GW1. HE is the one who watched his military machine pile drive the Iraqi Army into dust in 40 days. And HE is the one that pulled us out against every swinging shlong on any advisory committee. Yeah, I'd call that incompetent. When you have 2 dozen military leaders telling you what NOT to do with the military you're in charge of, you're a fool for not listening.

I love how the dems seem to forget that Bush didn't start this war.

I've had jobs like this before. Contractor comes in and totally botches the job. So Joe Business Owner calls me to fix all the screwups. But even before I can, Joe starts complaining that I'm not doing it right or fast enough or cheap enough or whatever. Don't blame me, blame your own incompetence for hiring a shoddy contractor in the first place - I'm just tring to unf&ck what they screwed up. Such as it is with Clinton.

And I'll add this: The grounds for impeachment are broken laws. Bush hasn't broken any laws. Clinton lied under oath and got away with it.

So sick that in your democrat pipe and smoke it.

People in glass houses, let him without sin, et al.

I can tell you and I are to have some great debates, bro! I love it! If you're in AZ, CA or FL, shoot me a PM and I'll buy you a beer (no joke).

[quote=AZ_Infantry;416379]My friend, you are king of the Red Herring fallacy.


........."I love how the dems seem to forget that Bush didn't start this war."

OK...Then I'll bite....Who did start this war? (& please dont try to spin Iraq into being involved in the 9/11/2001 attacks that even the Bush admin admitts they had nothing to do with)
OK...Let me get this straight......Al Quieda, using mainly Sauid Arabian nationals, attacks us on 9/11/2001 from a planning base in Afganistan &, to retaliate............We invade Iraq!? ( sounds like a great idea!! .....If GW Bush had been President at the time of the 1941 Pearl Harbor attack, should we have invaded Fiji???...Nah...How about Sweden? (can never trust those sneaky Swedes!)