Very interesting Afghanistan stuff, there.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

MM - why do you feel that Israel needed protecting from Iraq?

Because Iraq was seen as a threat to Isreali security because Saddam was financing Palestinen Terrorists. Saddam was on record as offerring $25,000 to the family of suicide bombers. Also the pre-1991 Iraqi military was a threat to Israel, the last thing the Isrealis wanted was their old enemy back to strength again.

Now if the Israelis wanted to take out Saddam, thats more understandable. But as usual, they used their proxy to do the dirty work for them, Because if Isreal attacked a Arab country it would have sparked a regional war.

And we complied, as we always do.

I think at this point in time we should cut our losses and start slowly making an exit plan. Its draining the States too badly and the market is suffering, not just gas but I mean have you seen grocery store prices? Deisel gas at 4.50 the truck drivers are gettin pushed outa business which means no freight movement.

If the Iraqi govt cant slowly start helping itself then we are just spinning our wheels.

Originally Posted by doc

I think at this point in time we should cut our losses and start slowly making an exit plan. Its draining the States too badly and the market is suffering, not just gas but I mean have you seen grocery store prices? Deisel gas at 4.50 the truck drivers are gettin pushed outa business which means no freight movement.

If the Iraqi govt cant slowly start helping itself then we are just spinning our wheels.

That seems to be the main concern, that the government will collapse as soon as we leave.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

Because Iraq was seen as a threat to Isreali security because Saddam was financing Palestinian Terrorists......

Hi MM - yes, I was aware of the problems Saddam posed for Israel and
the details, But I don't see that they Israel needed intervention by USA.

Firstly - most Arab countries and others beside fund Palestinian terrorists, and also, Old Saddam had his uses - look at the situation now. Remember that during the Iraq/Iran war, Iran pleaded for Iraq to stay out of the way and let Iran attack Israel - Saddam refused and pummelled Iran harder.

First Gulf War, when Saddam rocketed Israel, the prize was for persuading Israel to keep its hands off Saddam, not the other way round.

The Arab countries need no encouragement to fight each other, and Israel has never needed any encouragement to retaliate.

This is still the case. The existence of Israel as a reason for this latest Iraq war does not measure up - Is Israel's situation any better for it? I don't think so. And whatever regime was going to replace Saddam, it would not have altered policies towards Israel. Israel has needed no encouragement in taking action against nuclear threat from Syria and Iran.

USA would have taken on Saddam for its own good reasons, that is the business they are in, looking after USA's interests, and it seems to me that they are pretty damned good at it, when not undermined by those who create poor morale at home.

Beware changes that will find you saying not 'God Bless America' but 'God Help America' - and ' bring back Geo W. who went for the throats of those who wish to bring USA down.' (If only we had Maggie back!)

Ok folks - you can let me have both barrels, I'll brace myself.

The Iraqi government is screwed if the US leaves. Like Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan... who would die within hours if not minutes of allied withdrawal.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

The Iraqi government is screwed if the US leaves. Like Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan... who would die within hours if not minutes of allied withdrawal.

The question remains though "what are your options" if the governments of these respective countries cannot and will not get their act together because its easier to have all the power and someone to do your dirty work then what do you do?

Seems you have two choices:
1) Cut your losses and run which in the long term I think is a bad idea.
2) Stay there for ever and a day.

Either way its a no win situation.

My personal belief is that the best option is a realistic but non-negotiable public timetable because I am certain that Karzai and co will start getting interested in making things work once they know the day their lifeline will be departing.

Like I said... damned if you do, even more damned if you don't... but if those guys in Iraq and Afghanistan know anything, they know that the US troops can't be there forever. They probably know that. Let's just hope they're not raking in all the funds into their private offshore bank accounts with a highly efficient exit plan to the Bahamas the instant US pullout becomes official.
It's happened before.