Originally Posted by Marinerhodes

Some of the troops may have been shipped without body armor but did they actually go into combat without it? That is not a rhetorical question. I am asking for facts.

I am not aware of anyone being sent into Iraq without some type of protection. Some of the units just had the PASGT/flak vests with no plates, and that was the complaint.

I know of some Marine bns that were issuing just one plate at the kickoff, and keeping the others as backups. Any that I ran into by their second tour had gotten the second plate.

NG units seemed to be about the only ones sporting the PASGT alone and I am unaware of any of those units being sent out for any DA missions with just that. I know some of the truck drivers only had those when they were running convoys. The problem with that though can't just be blamed on the Pentagon, NG units have a bad history of mismanaging their money and not doing the paper work to get the equpitment they need (or would need). So add that to a quick mobilization without much time to prepare, and I think that's why things were as they were.

The PASGT performs at NIJ level IIA, if I remember correctly.

Good points about the pension and liability and about proper outfitting. The way the armour issue is being reported leads one to believe that troops are going into combat with little more than their skivvies.

To think that I went into battle and the only protection was a sweat encrusted shirt

You poor neglected man, come here and get a hug... awwwww.

Well, given that people are battling an insurgency, combat is likely to find people as they are driving convoys, building power stations, or heck, buying a packet of cigarettes. Everybody on deployment, no matter what their role, needs their own full-spec ballistic protection and personal weapon, and full, current training in their use: they should not have to equip themselves.

Now it is not that they are equipping themselves. It is what they are equipping themselves with.

Originally Posted by Kirruth

Well, given that people are battling an insurgency, combat is likely to find people as they are driving convoys, building power stations, or heck, buying a packet of cigarettes. Everybody on deployment, no matter what their role, needs their own full-spec ballistic protection and personal weapon, and full, current training in their use: they should not have to equip themselves.

No one had to, no one was sent outside of the wire without protection. I don't care what the media tells you. It just didn't happen.

Originally Posted by PJ24

No one had to, no one was sent outside of the wire without protection. I don't care what the media tells you. It just didn't happen.

If they were sent outside the wire they were given sets that were held specifically for convoy ops from what I have heard. I was talking to a buddy of mine and he said his Bn CO made a point of having a certain number of sets set aside for convoy ops. They would sign them out and turn them in when they returned.

Like I said. It is not a matter of if they are equipped it is what they are equipped with and how it is equipped. Read all the posts. You will find many things repeated here that have already been said.

Originally Posted by PJ24

The PASGT performs at NIJ level IIA, if I remember correctly.

Yikes. My personal body armor (that I purchased for riding EMS tours in Harlem, NYC) is rated at IIIA, two levels higher.

Originally Posted by AJChenMPH

Yikes. My personal body armor (that I purchased for riding EMS tours in Harlem, NYC) is rated at IIIA, two levels higher.

That's in Harlem though, we're talking about Iraq. It is much safer than Harlem. You should probably have plates, too.