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| Milforum Moderator ![]() | Post; Unlikely Victories.This dose not completely belong in the hardware zone, but there is reason for me posting it here. To remind everyone that hardware diffrences sometimes melt away due to better experience or command. Here Ill ask you to post about victories achieved against superior hardware, be it air -combat, tank battles, sea-warfare, or infantry warfare. Ill start off with the following: During the 6 days war Israel sent its long range attack bombers, the Vautour SO.4050 to attack H3, the most eastern Iraqi airbase. The Vautour is a slow, big, underpowered plane. During one of the strikes against H3, a dogfight between the atacking Vautours and Iraqi Hunter aicraft developed. The Hunter is a british made, highly manuverable dogfighter. Despite the great disadvanage, one of the Vautour ppilots, Cpt. Zohar Ben-Zion managed to shoot down one of the hunters. |
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| Banned ![]() | two cases of air to air combat spring to mind, both involving the same aircraft....the shorts sunderland flying boat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorts_Sunderland Quote:
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| Primus Pilus | the battle of Chancellorsville in the American Civil War. background: union (northern) army is at approx. 110,000 men strong. confederates (southern) army is maybe 80,000 strong. the union marches into Virginia, into a thick wooded area called the Wilderness. they march in, set up camp, and go to bed for the night. Gen. Lee (southern commander) decides to divide his army in half, keeping one half with him in front of the Union army, and sending the other half, under the command of Gen. Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson , to attack the Union's left flank. well, the attack goes perfectly, Jackson pops up on the Union left flank and routes a Union army corps (the 11th). however, Jackson is mistakenly (and ultimately fatally) shot by his own troops.the battle of the cowpens in the American Revolutionary War. the battle of Lake Erie in the war of 1812 the Peninsular Campaign of the American Civil War the European Resistance of WW2 the Vietnam War thats all i can think of for now, but there are dozens more in American History alone |
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| Milforum Moderator ![]() | we are talking about hardware related issues... |
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| Tribuni Angusticlavii | Well, you have to kind of determine what you mean by unlikely victories over technology. For example, you could say the N. Vietnamese because they where technologically outclassed, but they paid for their victory in the millions of dead vietnamese whereas America suffered only 50,000 dead. |
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| Milforum Moderator ![]() | what i mean is you have to specify thehardware that seemed underdogish but won. |
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| Milforum's Bouncer | Chuck Yeager in a P-51 shoots down a Luftwaffe jet, the ME-262. Is one particular battle that comes to mind. Another would be in Mogadishu, combat-trained and street equipped gangs shoot down a black hawk with an RPG. Twice. Once you could call lucky.
__________________ "The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." - John Steinbeck |
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| Optio | Put enough RPG's into the air and you're bound to hit something, but point taken. I would mention the Anglo Boer War, but we were really technologically superior to the Brits until they started using naval guns. We were using smokeless powder in highlyu accurate Mausers while the Brits had a mix of Martini Henry's (single Shot) and Lee Metford/Enfields (not smokeless powder and not very long range). The Boere gave the British a good whipping in the beginning, but the British took some of their very large naval guns and mounted them on tracks/wheels and things started going South really fast, still, with the older cannons the Boere had, they managed to give the British the runaround for a while. Not sure if this would fit into the unlikely victory (based on hardware) catagory. The Brits numbered close to 300 000 and the Boere were only around 50 000 men strong.
__________________ \"...but Napoleon and all his veterans have never treated us so roughly as these hard-bitten farmers with their ancient theology and their inconveniently modern rifles.\"-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle on the Boer. www.fambook.com |
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| Milforum Moderator ![]() | Tend to agree with bushpig. If you read CWO Durants book "In the Company of Hero's". He mentions the high volume of RPG fire during the mission. And Mogadishu was flat full of RPG's. So it was more of a "Golden BB" theory with RPG's instead of small arms. But yeah point taken.
__________________ The only people I like besides my wife and children are MARINES. Col. Oliver North USMC |
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| Immunes | Well, the Somalis did shoot down 2 choppers and hit another but not seriously enough that it made back to the base. I realize that they were, more than likely, lucky shots, however it's pretty damn hard to hit 3 moving targets in the air with a 'dumb', non-heat-seeking grenade launcher like an RPG. |
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