Unconventional Warfare and the US Armed Forces

03, you are the one who should shut up...

You cant handle a different opinion than yours... Are you aware that your opinions are as ridiculous to me than mines are to you? What makes you better?

What kind of retarded brute are you?

Go crawl under a rock where you belong... What a jerk... I should teach some manners someday you punk... I will teach you then to not mess with your masters.

-------
mmarsh, well, there is a lot of hypocrisy in that. In the Afghan-Soviet war, they didnt hesitate to use the same foreign fighters to fight their enemy by proxy... And now, they say that they shouldnt be waging war to anyone because they are not officially soldiers?

And treating prisonners nicely is part of a good military doctrine. Pushing people to fight to the death isnt a good thing.

And Is there SUPERMAX equivalents in other countries?
And do you think that the Islamists militant you see in Afghanistan are different from the militants you see in other countries?

What's so special about them?

And finally, SUPERMAX is a security level... When people are talking about bad treatment, they speak about torture, like sensory deprivation, letting them to rot with a sack on their heads, no fair judgment etc...
And let's not speak about the mass graves incidents in the beginning of the war when surrendering Taliban where shot after they were promised safe passage.
 
03, you are the one who should shut up...

You cant handle a different opinion than yours... Are you aware that your opinions are as ridiculous to me than mines are to you? What makes you better?

What kind of retarded brute are you?

Go crawl under a rock where you belong... What a jerk... I should teach some manners someday you punk... I will teach you then to not mess with your masters.

-------
mmarsh, well, there is a lot of hypocrisy in that. In the Afghan-Soviet war, they didnt hesitate to use the same foreign fighters to fight their enemy by proxy... And now, they say that they shouldnt be waging war to anyone because they are not officially soldiers?

And treating prisonners nicely is part of a good military doctrine. Pushing people to fight to the death isnt a good thing.

And Is there SUPERMAX equivalents in other countries?
And do you think that the Islamists militant you see in Afghanistan are different from the militants you see in other countries?

What's so special about them?

And finally, SUPERMAX is a security level... When people are talking about bad treatment, they speak about torture, like sensory deprivation, letting them to rot with a sack on their heads, no fair judgment etc...
And let's not speak about the mass graves incidents in the beginning of the war when surrendering Taliban where shot after they were promised safe passage.

Who is "they"? The US? You might forget that unlike the US, the Soviets attacked Afghanistan without provocation. The US therefore didn't use the Afghans as a Proxy, we did supply arms to them to help them fight the soviets, but thats hardly using them as a proxy. If 9-11 hadn't happened, they US would have never gone into Afghanistan.

Treating prisoners nicely is good military doctrine? Tell that the the Germans, Soviets, or Japanese in WWII, they murdered most of the POWS they captured. Even the French in 1944-45 were notorious for shooting captured German POWs. You have a very naive view of war, I would suggest talking to someone who has actually been in one. "Nice" and "War" do not belong in the same sentence. There is nothing nice about war, there is only long moments of boredom, followed by minutes of terror, and horror -in that order.

We offered the Taliban safe passage? Why would the US offer the Taliban safe passage when wee are trying our hardest to exterminate them. And even if its true, do I feel sorry for them? Not at all. The US has its faults, and we do make mistakes, and sometimes soldiers do things they are not supposed to do. If they get caught, they are punished. Compare that to the Taliban are the people that deliberately murder thousands of people without the slightest remorse at all before giving the USA a lecture.

But if you really think the coalition is that bad, go see what the other side is doing...
 
Last edited:
Yes absolutely, "they" here is the US.

And what do you mean by "unprovoked"? They are not a government. They are a bunch of thugs hiding in mountains...

They are official enough when they want to declare a war, but they arent official enough to have the soldier status?

It's very confusing.

And excuse me, but supplying them weapons to kill the soviets is using them as proxies. It's the Vietnam war of the Soviets. War through proxies.

And nice and war can mix up pretty good. When war is wagged by savages... Horrible things happen.

But I was thinking about civilized people. I read Sun Tzu recently.

And in his book, treating prisonners nicely is part of his strategy. He said many times to make their situation better (than how they were in enemy camps)...
It's part of destroying their will to fight.

If the soldiers at Normandy knew that they would have been taken prisonners and treated nicely... They wouldnt have fought to the death.

Same for the Soviets, they had Soviet weapons behind their heads, if the Germans gave them a chance to join the ranks and take up arms against their communist leaders... The Germans could have found a huge supply of man power...

I dont like all these "if"s... But you get the point.

And why I have to chose between bad and worse?

I'm not a soldier, but in my line of work, you do the job or you get your ass fired. And we have strict ways to do the job. Well defined rules and principles. And if we dont follow them, even when the job is done, the system doesnt work...

And believe it or not, in war, it's exactly the same. If you dont respect some principles, even when you win, you discover than in fact, you lost...

And it wasnt a single incident. They sent propaganda units (psyops) to tell the Taliban to surrender. Some did surrender, and they rounded them up, and made them disappear.

This kind of events fuel the hatred between Taliban and Coalition forces... Making the war last longer.

Even in war, there could be respect between the people fighting.

And all the propaganda about the Taliban doesnt work on me... They are extremely backward. I know that. But they are not yet "evil". I'm not scared of the devil...

I still think that the White man is more evil than any other man on earth as he got a terrible superiority complex...
 
Yes absolutely, "they" here is the US.

And what do you mean by "unprovoked"? They are not a government. They are a bunch of thugs hiding in mountains...

They are official enough when they want to declare a war, but they arent official enough to have the soldier status?

It's very confusing.

And excuse me, but supplying them weapons to kill the soviets is using them as proxies. It's the Vietnam war of the Soviets. War through proxies.

And nice and war can mix up pretty good. When war is wagged by savages... Horrible things happen.

But I was thinking about civilized people. I read Sun Tzu recently.

And in his book, treating prisonners nicely is part of his strategy. He said many times to make their situation better (than how they were in enemy camps)...
It's part of destroying their will to fight.

If the soldiers at Normandy knew that they would have been taken prisonners and treated nicely... They wouldnt have fought to the death.

Same for the Soviets, they had Soviet weapons behind their heads, if the Germans gave them a chance to join the ranks and take up arms against their communist leaders... The Germans could have found a huge supply of man power...

I dont like all these "if"s... But you get the point.

And why I have to chose between bad and worse?

I'm not a soldier, but in my line of work, you do the job or you get your ass fired. And we have strict ways to do the job. Well defined rules and principles. And if we dont follow them, even when the job is done, the system doesnt work...

And believe it or not, in war, it's exactly the same. If you dont respect some principles, even when you win, you discover than in fact, you lost...

And it wasnt a single incident. They sent propaganda units (psyops) to tell the Taliban to surrender. Some did surrender, and they rounded them up, and made them disappear.

This kind of events fuel the hatred between Taliban and Coalition forces... Making the war last longer.

Even in war, there could be respect between the people fighting.

And all the propaganda about the Taliban doesnt work on me... They are extremely backward. I know that. But they are not yet "evil". I'm not scared of the devil...

I still think that the White man is more evil than any other man on earth as he got a terrible superiority complex...

1. Unprovoked meaning that in 1979 the Taliban did not attack first before the Soviets before they invaded, where the allies of the Taliban *DID* attack the US prior to the US invasion. Not the same thing at all. As I said there would be no US troops in Afghanistan if it were not for 9-11.

2. No Lemask, your totally wrong. That is *NOT* fighting a proxy war. A proxy war means you get someone else to do the fighting for you. For example, both sides of the Spanish Civil War in 1939 used foreign troops to fight. That was a proxy war. The US in 1979 was not at war with the USSR, we merely aided another country in need of help, just like we did the British and Russians in 1940-41. That is NOT the definition of a Proxy war. Check it the dictionary if you don't believe me.

3. You really need to stop reading books and start talking to those who actually fought in one, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Last century, both sides of my family saw combat at Verdun, Normandy, Dien Bien Phu, and Beirut and not one of them had anything good to say about it. This is why you are making people so angry because you are making a lot of baseless claims based on no experience, vs people who really experienced it. I wasn't in the military either, but I know enough not to contradict peoples who experience on the field is greater than what I have read.

4. Again, you are talking like a clueless civilian. In civilian life you don't do your job you get fired, in the military you don't do your job and you and everyone around you can get killed. The consequences for failure are far more severe.

5. I agree that not letting the Taliban terrorize you is important, I refuse to be intimidated by them either. But to fail to recognize truly how dangerous they are is simply stupid. The measures we take against the Taliban are harsh but necessary and not without good reason. If you really think we are that hard on them then you should go to Pakistan and meet them, they will very likely kill you on the spot simply for not being Muslim.

6. Again, who cares what happened to captured taliban? The Afghans don't.
Which crime is worse? Those that target the innocent? Or those who target those who target the innocent?

7. Are you French? Your rhetoric sounds alot like the rhetoric the PCF spouts.
 
mmarsh. Maybe you are right, but know that there is a different definition flying outside...

Here is a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars

And in proxy wars of the Cold War, I find :
Afghan-Soviet War, 1979-1989.

I'm not making it up... Just using a different and more "general" definition I guess...

And the people who have fought in wars are very often not the thinker type... They think in a very practical manner.
And second, they lack the observation perspective to really see what happened.
I use their knowledge every time I can...

And well, once again, we dont share the same definition of nice.
They havent seen anything nice in Normandy? What about defeating the Germans? Liberating France? Men fighting to the death and pulling themselves out of a death trap? Am I inventing this?

And yes, It's not pretty... But it's beautiful. Have you ever seen a surgeon doing his job? It's horrible... blood and guts everywhere... But at the end of the day, you have a baby coming out of the guts... And it's not pretty. But it's beautiful.
And even when the mother dies, it's still beautiful, because without the intervention, we could have lost the baby too...

And in modern wars, the survival rate of the soldiers means that they, somehow, afford a few mistakes...

If you are in a bomber, flying over Afghanistan, what is the risk if you make a mistake? Maybe kill a family or two... Destroy a village, kill some innocents...
But it wont kill you... Maybe that the angry victims might kill another soldier to get revenge on our side, but it wont always kill you.

The situation is really complex... And I'm not mad at the soldiers. They obey orders, and I'm sure that most of them want to help.
And that they are more disturbed than me when they get wrong orders...

I have a documentary, when the Taliban are receiving a foreign journalist (From Danemark I believe)... And in the whole documentary, they dont try to kill him for not being Muslim.
They do mock his blond hair, some comments like that... But not much more than that.

So, what if it was just propaganda? I'm sure that in Afghanistan there is some nasty Taliban who are intolerant bastards... But we all have our share of intolerant bastards...

And Saudis are like the Taliban, and I dont see many people saying that they are evil...

And I care about what happens to captured Taliban. They are human beings. And I believe in human rights.

I'm not PCF. (je ne suis pas du tout un communiste. Et c'est ma rhétorique, je suis auto-didacte en matiére de politique.)
 
And I care about what happens to captured Taliban. They are human beings. And I believe in human rights.

Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif

Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif

Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif
 
A Can of Man, arent you here letting your emotions taking control of you?

Human rights are entitled to every human being.

And I would add that we should use human rights in particular when we are dealing with people who dont respect human rights.

I could also quote Jesus when he says that there is no honor in loving the people who love you.

I'm not asking anybody to love the Taliban... But I would ask you to love human rights anytime...

But I understand you, I can get medieval on someone I hate, like a rapist, a pedophile, a nazi, a racist... Someone like that... But I admit that I'm not the right person respect the human rights of these people...
 
But I understand you, I can get medieval on someone I hate, like a rapist, a pedophile, a nazi, a racist... Someone like that... But I admit that I'm not the right person respect the human rights of these people...

Because that's normal.
Imagine a world without consequences.
What's to stop others from doing evil if they know they will not be harmed at worst and even rewarded at best? NOTHING.
 
The world is more complex than that.
Your intention can be good... But it's not the right thing to do...

There is a big difference between common criminals and a religious extremist. In particular in backward countries like Afghanistan...

And let's be honest, the Taliban have done a very good job... Even when it comes to women rights.
Before the Taliban an Afghan was capable of killing his wife if he wanted to. While the Taliban denied them this "right" and installed some kind of primitive justice where there was some kind of judgment. This situation was that bad.

And the more you harm them, the stronger they get. In fact, by abusing prisoners, you enforce the image of the big evil godless man they have to fight at all cost...

And then you spread their ideology to other people/lands/countries...

And these people have brothers. You have to know that Muslims share a brotherhood relation. They know that they are divided in their doctrines, tribes etc etc... But they are nevertheless extremely concerned by what's happening to their brothers...

See the Muslim community as a chain, every part of the chain is an extremism level.

You abuse a Taliban... And it's like if you were abusing the retarded brother of a big family...

And then, think about the human rights loving people and other idealists...
 
You abuse a Taliban... And it's like if you were abusing the retarded brother of a big family...

Analogy fail.
If the retards of our family killed other family members, cut their faces off and stoned them to death, we would have thrown them off a cliff a long time ago.
 
Back
Top