A crime would be shoving bamboo up their nails. I will not put these soldiers on par with that - what they did was stupid, immature, and unprofessional. That being said, once the investigation is complete, I fully expect to see those responsible charged and tried for their actions. I do not, however, want to see these soldiers doing life making big rocks into little rocks. It is hardly a fitting punishment for stupidity and unprofessionalism.

I think what bothers me most about it all, are the excuses coming from the soldiers. And they wonder why people have such harsh opinions of the reserves/guard, the 10% always ruin it for everyone.

The people (refuse to call them soldiers) who did this represent the military about as much as the biggest SOB's you go to school or work with represent you.

Out of 130,000...no doubt you are going to have your fair share of theives, sex offenders and psychopaths. There's no way to avoid it. Everyone in the military know they exist. Unfortunatly, they often gravitate towards the type of jobs which allow them to commit those things which are in their heart. Being in a war atmosphere even gives them more opportunity.

The problem here is a world and media who will take these 'few' and negatively judge the rest.

It's really sad.

Originally Posted by Arabess

The people (refuse to call them soldiers) who did this represent the military about as much as the biggest SOB's you go to school or work with represent you.

Out of 130,000...no doubt you are going to have your fair share of theives, sex offenders and psychopaths. There's no way to avoid it. Everyone in the military know they exist. Unfortunatly, they often gravitate towards the type of jobs which allow them to commit those things which are in their heart. Being in a war atmosphere even gives them more opportunity.

The problem here is a world and media who will take these 'few' and negatively judge the rest.

It's really sad.

These are soldiers. And they do represent the military. Every soldier, bad or good represents the military. We ALL (those of us in the military) pay for their mistakes on some level.

They behaved as wrecklessly and without forthought, unbefitting of their title - but it does not and will not change their title until/unless UCMJ action states otherwise.

It seems your judgement of these soldiers is rather harsh. I would not dare compare them to sex offenders nor psychopaths. As for your comment on being in a war atmosphere, have you ever been in one? Unless you have, ma'am .. there is no possible way for you to understand the type of stress that is put on a person, combat soldier or support soldier. It can and has been known to cause people to do things completely out of their character. While I do not support these soldiers in their bad actions, I will not judge their characters based on events that occured in a hot AO. I will, however, judge their actions as wrong and indefensable and in need of punishment (which they will recieve).

The problem here is a world and media who will take these 'few' and negatively judge the rest.

This has always been true of the media, and if they cannot find the "few" they will intentionally put a negative spin on any event to make the news.

Every solider in a War makes mistakes.

These "idiots"as someone put it, were totally stupid for taking the pictures, and doing the actual act.


But lets not compare them to Saddam Hussien, like the Arabs and the Democrats are trying to do. It all reality, they didn't do anything terribly wrong(they didn't kill anyone, or chop off their arms or such, like Saddam did)

They were fools to do it, and even more foolish to take the pictures. But don't compare what they did to the past.

It is also funny how everyone in the world can do bad ****, but the first time an american does something bad. The world is "shocked" and upset.

Do you know the total percent of the troops that did this?? I did the math and stopped way before I got the total answer:

But out of 135,000 US TROOPS
10 or less did this act

That comes out to a percentage of 0.01953125% of the total number of troops.

It all reality, they didn't do anything terribly wrong(they didn't kill anyone, or chop off their arms or such, like Saddam did)

Really...? Not so bad...? I agree there are worse things...,But, how would you react if those were US POWs being humiliated by arabs...? I think this is a horribel thing. All POWs deserve dignety, they served their country, just like any soldier.

Like I said before, I have seen a lot worse for frat pledges. Not defending their (the MPs') actions, but, come on, it ain't the huge thing everyone is making it out to be. Those responsible will be properly tried and punished, and life will go on. However, I think it is dangerous to hold ourselves up to someone like Saddam as a justification for their actions. Since this IS a quotes forum, here's one for you all:

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster...for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

However, I think it is dangerous to hold ourselves up to someone like Saddam as a justification for their actions

Exactly what i meant.

Its a shame this has happened. The US is supposed to be there to liberate them from this exact type of thing.

This will hurt public opinion, and increase the danger and tension over in Iraq.

It takes just a few to slip up to tarnish the reputation of the majority.

Lazza.

In my view both RN and Lazza are right. but if Iraqi's new gov't gets to keep its legitimacy at the eyes of its people and they manage to take control over their territory by catching more and more guerrilla fighters and terrorists, by trialling Saddam and by enforcing a minimum of rule of law, then it's gonna be a victory. A victory that these scandals will have only slowed down a little. People are NOT against war, they're just against ii WHEN it doesn't work. Makes a huge difference.