Originally Posted by 03USMC

IMO Stalingrad gave the Red Army a big morale boost and momentum after a severe shellacking during the early stages of the engagement. It also effected the morale of German Army who was used to running over all opponets.

Right. But at the same time as Stalingrad was being lost the Germans won a huge battle further north which was even bigger than Stalingrad in scale. Also, there's no evidence that the performance of the German Army was affected by any one single battle. They remained a potent fighting force and the best army man-for-man right until almost the end.

IMO, its best to view the turning of the tide on the Ostfront as a 3 step process. Stopping the Germans from taking Moscow was CRUCIAL but only part of the formula. Stalingrad allowed the Red Army to prove to itself that they could win a large scale battle. Kursk gained them the initiative and was the most evident point that the tide was completely turned . The Red Army was was primarily on the attack from Kursk on.

Agree with both godofthunder and doppleganger

The Battle of Britain...need I say more? Didnt think so

I'd say you could say a LOT more actually. Its a very valid turning point of sorts for the war, but I don't think it was the biggest one by a long shot.

The fact of it was that NOBODY had yet beaten Germany in a land battle needs to be taken into account. How long would the UK have lasted if Germany had managed to defeat the Soviet Union? If the Red Army had not stopped Germany, who would have?

The War was won or lost on the Ostfront, but the Battle of Britain meant that the USSR was forced to go it alone. Germany was unable to launch Opperation Sea Lion. That ends up saving the UK, North Africa and the Middle East. It forced Germany to spend valuable resources and production to the U-boat campaign, and toward setting up defenses against possible invasion of the continent. Diverting German resources from the Ostfront was the most important thing that the UK did to help ensure victory at that state of the game.

Granted the US and the Soviet Union won the war but the Battle of Britain prevented the war from being lost. It also prevented Britain from being defeated and mean that Germany had to turn on Russia with an enemy at her rear.

If Britain had fallen, it is entirely likely (but of course cant be proven) that Russia may well have been defeated leading to a new dark age in Europe and possibly the world.

1940 was the only opportunity Hitler had of defeated Britain. With each passing month, Britain become stronger, new aircraft, new pilots, new equipment, it meant the Empire could mobilise, it meant Britain could send supplies to Russia.

And, of course, it gained time for the US to enter the war (at which point Churchill knew the war was won - can find his quote if you are interested)

Yes, the Battle of Britain - turning point of WW2 and probably the most important battle of all time bar none

Incidentally, an excellent documentary series on BBC2 features the Battle of Britain this evening
No doubt, they will confirm all my views

Yes, they did confirm my views
I never realised just how clever I was

Originally Posted by spymaster

The Battle of Britain...need I say more? Didnt think so

Yeah you need to say LOT more! I think you're just mucking around? If you're not, you need to explain what relationship the Battle of Britain had to the failure of Operation Barbarossa. You're VASTLY over estimating the importance of the Battle of the Britain in WW2. If Germany v the Soviet Union was T-Rex v Godzilla then in terms of overall importance and scale the RAF v the Luftwaffe could be likened to 2 small scruffy dogs scrapping over an old bone.

Don't get me wrong. I'm British and DAMM proud of the way our boys performed in that battle. We performed above all expectations (aside from possibly our own) and we managed to sow the seeds of doubt in Hitler's mind, so much so that he resorted to terror civilian raids instead. No mean feat. But it was a battle that with hindsight had limited strategic importance as it was in no way certain that Operation Sealion would have been launched had the Luftwaffe won. In any case, it did not affect the outcome of Barbarossa.

The Battle of Britain, the Africa campaigns, the war at sea around the North Sea and North Atlantic, all were minor sideshows to the *real* battles taking place thousands of miles to the east. Like it or not, that was where the fate of all Europe was determined in WW2, the UK included. It's a bit galling to know that your own fate is out of your hands. That's the way it was for us during WW2. No amount of nationalism or blinkered patriotism can hide the truth.

One more thing. Hitler's failure in the Battle of Britain had nothing to do with his decision to attack the Soviet Union. Ever since he wrote Mein Kampf it was clear to all that the Soviet Union was his ultimate target. Hitler also knew that any war with Stalin was inevitable, given the completely opposite ideologies of those 2 nations.