Damien thanks for your map
As everyone see the Turkish Asian soils you may also see the Cyprus above the Turkish Asian soils...

And Ted What is my wiew is about what?

Originally Posted by oRTouCH

Damien thanks for your map
As everyone see the Turkish Asian soils you may also see the Cyprus above the Turkish Asian soils...

And Ted What is my wiew is about what?

Well you stated your point on joining the EU from a political, geographical and cultural point of view, and did this convincingly.
Economical I can say that Turkey does not necessarily needs to join the EU to get economic favourable treaties. Uni- and multilateral treaties can make sure the Turkey has a favourable position.
And I missed your view on the historical background. My "no" is based on a long shared history, from the Romans, Charel Martel, inquisitions, 100 years war, 80 years war, intermarriage between many Royal houses and Christianity with all its war and rows....

I was interested in what you have to say to these points. As I said; you got me convinced on the other points and I wondered if you could sway my view on the Turkish membership.

I think that the EU stands to benefit moreso than Turkey.

Turkey is one of those interesting paradoxes. I think that Turkish folks prefer to be considered Europeans mostly because "Middle Eastern" = "Mostly Backwards and Well Behind the Times" in this day and age. That certainly does not describe Turkey. Turkey stands to benefit more from closer ties to Europe than from closer ties to the Middle East. But there is not question that most of Turkey is geographically located in Asia/the Middle East.

It's interesting how Turkey has gone from Great Ruler of the Middle East 100 years ago, to wanting to disassociate itself from the rest of the Middle East today. We go from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1, to Turkey joining NATO during the Cold War. <-- That is probably the greatest item that makes everyone think of Turkey as European and not Middle Eastern. Joining the EU would just be a continuation of the same sort of thing and it is in Turkey's best interests to forge their ties to Europe in official terms in the same way that NATO worked for them. The biggest reason that Turkey is making a good move is exactly as OrTouch described: Here is you're one EU member who is overwhelmingly Muslim, and it demonstrates tolerance, diversity and the bare fact that Islam and Christendom can actually get along.

Interesting stuff indeed..

But really, I mean people shoudnt really look at a nation and decide its not European because of its culture or belief..
Its mostly the location and position. And yes, Turkey, just as Russia, lies between 2 continents. And Turkey, lies a little bit up north, I mean its longitude matches that of other European nations, then also, looking at the map posted earlier, there were a bunch of Greek islands that should be concidered Asian then..

Also, the same applies for Russia. Most of Russia lies in Asia. But the capital is in the Euoropean part, like Turkey right?

But MM, Russia is not entering the EU. And it will take some time to get that fixed!

Russia is far too proud to enter the European Union. Doing so would imply/admit that they're no longer on equal standing with the USA in the World.

But that is exactly my point GoT! Russia is in the same predicament with it's geography as Turkey. I reckon that Russia could profit enormously from the EU via defferent trade agreements. One of the most common arguments for Turkey's entering is economics. It would be so easy to maintain very profitable trade agreements with Turkey without Trukey becoming a EU-member.
I reckon that there's is a very large group of people in Norhtwest Europe who are not yet ready for Turkey. It is a feeling and they are already overfed with 10 new members in 2004. When there will be another vote for the European constitution these people will vote "no", because they feel it is not their Europe anymore.
I know that feelings and perceptions are not the thing to make policy with, but they do tip the balance when every vote is counted as an equal.

The biggest obstacle to Turkey joining the EU is Greece, there is so much bad blood between the countries Greece will try and block Turkey just on a point of principle, Then there is the problem of Cyprus, Greece has had it's eye on it for years and has stirred up a lot of trouble in that island over the years and now it is split between Greece and Turkey it has widened the gap even more.

Why EU accepted the Old East Block Countries to EU?
Most of them are not more democratic than Turkey...

Originally Posted by oRTouCH

Why EU accepted the Old East Block Countries to EU?
Most of them are not more democratic than Turkey...

yeah? do they kill/jail their minorities?