Originally Posted by Charge_7

The Byzantine Empire did include Greece at one point in its existence, so yeah, they defended Europe too.

byzantine empire included greece in all periods of its existence, almost to the end(except during mid 14 century when most of greece was in serbian hands, and during crusaders rule 1204-1261), and they spoke greek.

Originally Posted by Pierrot

I tell about today's Europe. Some countries think Europe must be an integrated common market and do never accept to go further (like UK for example); other countries prefer building a stronger Europe with a real politic power : these must be able to leave EU and build a real other one.

Hey don't forget that Charles Martel stopped the arabs at Poitiers in 732

i think like you, Europe needs an economic, militar and politic union, not just economic..It would be great that in some decades Europe could be completely unite....
I knew about the Poittiers battle, but you have to recognised that Spain have made a great effort during this 5 last centuries to avoid the expansion of Islam in Europe...800 years of war in Spain, the Lepanto batle(that we made it almost by our self...)

Yes, Serbianpower, I was quite aware of that. My only inference was that the Byzantine Empire did not include Greece in _all_ of it's existence. Most people on this side of the Atlantic associate the Byzantines with it's fall and not much else if at all so I was attempting to broaden the scope of their civilization for them. And yes, of course they spoke Greek - thus the Greek Orthodox Church.

you have to recognised that Spain have made a great effort during this 5 last centuries to avoid the expansion of Islam in Europe...

yes I recognize that. I only wanted to remind you that France led also a struggle against the arab expansion in Europe.

i think like you, Europe needs an economic, militar and politic union, not just economic

Ok so do you really believe that with such differences (and opposite points of view in Europe) this dream will arrive ?

Originally Posted by Pierrot

yes I recognize that. I only wanted to remind you that France led also a struggle against the arab expansion in Europe.

Ok so do you really believe that with such differences (and opposite points of view in Europe) this dream will arrive ?

i think that is gonna be quite dificult,specially the politic union....there are to many interests, and each country does not wanna loose their soberanity;but i think that if we want to afront the problems of the future we need a strong EU, with our own army for not depending on other countries........

Well the Russians have never had a problem losing their "soberanity" he he. The rest of those countries might have a problem losing their sovereignty though.

Originally Posted by Charge_7

Well the Russians have never had a problem losing their "soberanity" he he. The rest of those countries might have a problem losing their sovereignty though.

I will explain what I tried to say with the expresion: losing their soberanity. If some day the European Parlament makes laws concerning everything,there will be not much space for each country laws, and this laws will be relegated to very specific stuff just to desarrollate the european laws, but always inside their limits. Now we have the European Directive and European Reglaments, but the countries still have a lot of space for their own laws...
There is stuff that countries never wanna loose like militar organization decisions, interior policy, tributy laws...that´s why many countries just want the economic union and not the political one...UK for example.

I did not understand what you were trying to say with Rusia...They are not part of EU.......

Originally Posted by Charge_7

Yes, Serbianpower, I was quite aware of that. My only inference was that the Byzantine Empire did not include Greece in _all_ of it's existence. Most people on this side of the Atlantic associate the Byzantines with it's fall and not much else if at all so I was attempting to broaden the scope of their civilization for them. And yes, of course they spoke Greek - thus the Greek Orthodox Church.

true. finally I argee in something with you ser.

There is stuff that countries never wanna loose like militar organization decisions, interior policy, tributy laws...that´s why many countries just want the economic union and not the political one...UK for example.

All right but why does those contries belong to the EU? If they do not want to go further, they have to leave the organization, else the others should be allowed to build a real politic organization.

Yes, I agree with you, but the problem is that at the beguing the UE was just an econimic organization, in 1950, the French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman proposed integrating the coal and steel industries of Western Europe(This part of Europe is very rich in coal&steel, and its control was one of the reasons that made WWI & WWII beguin). A a result, in 1951, the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was set up, with six members: Belgium, West Germany, Luxembourg, France, Italy and the Netherlands. The power to take decisions about the coal and steel industry in these countries was placed in the hands of an independent, supranational body called the "High Authority". Jean Monnet was its first President.

From three communities to the European Union

The ECSC was such a success that, within a few years, these same six countries decided to go further and integrate other sectors of their economies. In 1957 they signed the Treaties of Rome, creating the European Atomic Energy Community (EURATOM) and the European Economic Community (EEC). The member states set about removing trade barriers between them and forming a "common market".

In 1967 the institutions of the three European communities were merged. From this point on, there was a single Commission and a single Council of Ministers as well as the European Parliament.