Originally Posted by Pierrot

'lo everyone,

hum the main problem is that Turkey is not really in Europe (geographically).

yes but those figures will be out-of-date in 2015, when the negotiations of the turkey-entrance will be close to be ended, and so Turkey will have a real power in the EU institutions, probably more than France! ('cause the population is the first criterion in tommorow's europa, if the new constitution will be adopted).

That's why I'm not really conviced that Turkey must be a EU member.

I seriously doubt that Turkey will ever have more influence than France in the EU, given that the Franco-German axis is the main power base and probably will continue to be given the UK's caution at further European integration.

Turkey is almost unique, an islamic country (in the sense that most of their population is) that is despised by Arabs and which considers itself European. If they do join I doubt European security will be much impacted. I think they will almost certainly join myself.

All figures are out of date eventually. Congratulations, you get the prize for stating the obvious.

What do you mean ?

Some figures can be out-of-date and however they can be close to describe the reality. But here this is not the case ! The birth rate is 17.22 per 1000 in Turkey (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/tu.html)whereas it is only 8.45 per 1000 in germany (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/gm.html), so the figures will be really far from the reality in 2015. That's what I've just wanted to explain.

I seriously doubt that Turkey will ever have more influence than France in the EU, given that the Franco-German axis is the main power base and probably will continue to be given the UK's caution at further European integration.

Yes, but you have to remeber that in europe´s parlament the number of representants is directly proportional to the population of each country. This means that when turkeys joins EU will be the second country with more population and with more representants in EU parlament. By 2015 they will probably reach to 70 million citizens.

If I were French, I would start making multiple-Mega-Gazillion Babies.

Originally Posted by Charge_7

Populations:

Germany - 82,797,408

France - 59,329,691

Great Britain - 58,789,194

Italy - 57,634,327

Spain - 39,996,671

Poland - 38,646,023

Turkey - 62,700,000

So judging from these figures, Germany has the greatest population in Europe. Also Turkey is more than 7 million shy of the figure you stated. A number very close to the populations of France, Great Britain, and Italy.


you forgot 6 milion turks in germany only, plus who knows how many milions in other european countries.

As to your other points. Terrorists are already "next door". You suggest Turkey as some kind of buffer zone? Not possible in these times.

it is not the same to if european borders are in balkan penninsula or near iraq.

Absorb Turkish workers? What makes you think they're all going to suddenly up and leave for other countries?

exactly. that is what will happen. that is first thing that happens after some country joins EU.

I did not state:

"you forgot 6 milion turks in germany only, plus who knows how many milions in other european countries."

Nor did I state:

"it is not the same to if european borders are in balkan penninsula or near iraq."

Those two lines are from someone else that you have attributed to me. If you look again at my post you will see that neither of those lines is in it.

Originally Posted by Charge_7

I did not state:

"you forgot 6 milion turks in germany only, plus who knows how many milions in other european countries."

Nor did I state:

"it is not the same to if european borders are in balkan penninsula or near iraq."

Those two lines are from someone else that you have attributed to me. If you look again at my post you will see that neither of those lines is in it.

that is what I claim. I do not know how my replies appeared there sorry, I am little bit retarded for this computer things. but do you have some answers to my claims?

They're irrelevant. Add the 7 million and Turkey is still 12 million short of Germany's 82 million, and as Doppleganger stated, France will vote in a block with Germany to have more than double the amount of seats Turkey would have. And borders are also irrelevant in today's world of terrorism. 9/11 certainly proved that.

Originally Posted by Charge_7

They're irrelevant. Add the 7 million and Turkey is still 12 million short of Germany's 82 million, and as Doppleganger stated, France will vote in a block with Germany to have more than double the amount of seats Turkey would have. And borders are also irrelevant in today's world of terrorism. 9/11 certainly proved that.

well if you take this 6-7 milions turks from german pupulation, then germany has 75 milions. I would not agree that borders are irrelevant, they are less important, but not irrelevant. imagine how would you feel if insted of mexico us had border with iraq. admit it is not same thing,

How do you justify taking 7 million away from Germany's population? That number is of German citizens. Are all 7 million Turks there citizens? I doubt it.

I don't have to admit any such thing for the simple reason that I _never said_ it was the same thing. But even if I had said such a thing, Iran and Iraq are on _Turkey's_ borders not your country's. Your analogy doesn't hold water. Europe even with the EU is not one country like the 50 states of the US are. Admittance to the EU is not going to change any determined terrorist's moving about anymore than they ability they have now. We're thousands of miles and an ocean away from the Middle East and still terrorists hijacked two planes and crashed into the Twin Towers killing 2600 people. Nobody's safe from terrorism by anything so marginal as borders.