Originally Posted by MontyB

Why exactly does Turkey need to consult the USA on this issue and they have asked Iraq to turn over wanted members of the organisation and Iraq has refused to do so. Basically its just another Afghanistan only when the Turks are done they can pop back across the border and get on with life.

Like it or not Iraq is harboring terrorists that have repeatedly attacked Turkey and if they follow the US example and lead they have every right to go after them since neither the Iraqi government nor its "allies" appear willing to do the job themselves.

As for oil well there is always Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia in the vicinity all of whom can supply oil at the international price.

You're missing the point. Oil rich neighbours have the cash to buy weapons and deliver payback at a later date. History is riddled with examples that you can't just go back to life as normal afterwards... the offended parties tend to have LONG memories. Would New Zealand hand over its citizens if/when the US claims them to be terrorists? No proof, no legal proceedings, just give em up? You start handing over your own citizens to foreign governments regardless the reasons and you will be facing an untenable situation with your people most rickytick. And they should care what the US thinks because as I said, we are the 10,000 pound gorilla in the monkey cage. You don't piss off the gorilla.

My money is on Turkey, they have been more than restrained up until now even as it grows more and more obvious that Iraq is going to do nothing and more likely incapable of doing anything so its up to the Turkish government to protect its own people and I am sure they can do that most effectively once the gloves are off.

As for the gorilla well in this case it is somewhat toothless because the only real threat it has is of military action and I am reasonably sure that the day US troops open fire on Turkish troops to protect a group that its own state department have labeled a terrorist organisation will be a very interesting day in world and domestic politics.

The US cuts Turkey loose, no aid, no training, no nothing... there are a couple teeth still intact. And which country was it that didn't want to let our troops use her territory for a staging round for the invasion of Iraq?

Originally Posted by bulldogg

The US cuts Turkey loose, no aid, no training, no nothing... there are a couple teeth still intact. And which country was it that didn't want to let our troops use her territory for a staging round for the invasion of Iraq?

That could be true however I am sure all these things could be filled by other NATO member states I hear France is looking to sell more equipment and once again I seriously doubt NATO would boot them for attacking the PKK.

I am thinking the remaining intact teeth could are getting a little blunt.

Third largest trading partner...

Major trading partners: Germany, UK, U.S., Italy, France, Spain, Russia, China (2004)

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108054.html

That's could smart a bit.

Exports: $72.49 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): apparel, foodstuffs, textiles, metal manufactures, transport equipment.

Imports: $101.2 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): machinery, chemicals, semifinished goods, fuels, transport equipment

Same source.

No man is an island, and in the world's globalised economy, nor is any country, metaphorically speaking.

All true but I suspect irrelevant, as I said earlier I think it will be an interesting day in politics when the USA moves to protect an organisation it has labeled a terrorist group.

Some how I just don't think that America will go to war, impose sanctions, place embargo's or in fact do anything more than make the usual "political" noises about regret, all this hype about terrorism and the global war has come back to bite you on the arse here.

Essentially you are stuck with a choice:

A) Take action against Turkey and watch the war on terror become a joke.
B) Buy off the Turks for the short term (could be expensive they don't seem to be for sale).
C) Let them do what they want to do and wave goodbye to Kurds as allies

The turkish guys, at least, put their case well, and i am pleased at how Turkey has been determined to maintain its secular stance, as per Attaturk.


As for Iraq, yes, now let me see............ what is needed............. is another Sadam! It seems that all they respect is strength and power.

Ole'.

Fourth option, coalition forces hunt down PKK members inside Iraq.

Fifth option. Get the Iraqi Kurds to hand them over by offering a homeland in return.

I like 5 the best, these people got shafted when Britain and France arbitrarily drew lines in the sand post WWI.

4. Will just mean Coalition forces get shot at instead of Turkish ones and given the coalitions inability to finish anything we will be holding the same argument in 6 months.

5. Might work but I doubt Turkey would or should turn over territory however if the Iraqi's want to give them a chunk of Iraq good for them, to be honest though handing over territory for peace didn't work that well in the 1930's and I am pretty sure will be just as ineffective this time.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Essentially you are stuck with a choice:

A) Take action against Turkey and watch the war on terror become a joke.
B) Buy off the Turks for the short term (could be expensive they don't seem to be for sale).
C) Let them do what they want to do and wave goodbye to Kurds as allies

Way I see it the US cannot attack Turkey without NATO Forces (minus the US of course) needing by Law to attack the United States in return, and Canada is right across our Northern Border, so, that would not turn out well for the United States, otherwise NATO ends because of nations breaking the Treaty.

And it is true that President Bush couldn't bribe the Turks before the Iraq misadventure, so I, like you do not believe the Turks can be bought off, seeing how it is their own Nation under attack from the Terrorists (Kurds).

Turkey moves into Iraq Militarily and I do not believe there will be many Kurds left, and as the United States has claimed the right of attacking any Nation that offers Safe Harbor to Terrorists engaged against the United States, well, Turkey attacking Iraq for offering Safe Harbor to Terrorist attacking Turkey seems legal enough.