Oh yes, but the alliances were forged when the threat was the USSR, not Saddam. I think the problem with some europian govs is that they do not realise what a threat terror is right now. Most are yet to have had a major attack. The Spanish amtter was redicules. I think it's there right not to be in Iraq, but all they are doing is shooting them selves in the leg. The Spanish people just signaled to the terrorists-"We will surrender if you hurt us bad enough". That is no way to win a war, and like it or not, the Fundamentalist Muslims are at war with anyone who is not muslim. Sure, some say that they first need to take over the arab countrys, but all want Islam to rule the world. The EU countrys need to think if they want to start fighting now, or wait till Osama or Nasrallah land non their front porch. You simply cant do this Half-assed. However, some countrys just dont have the resources. These countrys cant activly go after the bad guys. So, at least support the war on terror poilitically....

Come on Sherman...
Since the early seventies, France, Germany, England, Italy, Spain and Greece have lived throught terrorism....
Baader Manhof, Armata Rossa, Action Directe, ETA, IRA + all the Lybians, Palestinians, Armenians,Algerians...
We have had armed troops in the street since the mid eighties...
For America, YES, terrorism is new....
We've been fighting it for about 30 years!

I'm still not sure attacking Iraq was a way to stop terrorists. It can also be seen by the Fundamentalist Muslims Sherman is talking about, as an attack of the Muslim region.

I'm not saying attacking Iraq was wrong, I'm just not sure wether the American way of barging in guns blazing was the right way to go, especially when the UN ,including the inspectors, wanted to wait.

I agree with Sherman on the part of the Spanisch, they send the message into the world "terrorism works". I don't get that, they have had a lot of terrorist attacks by the ETA in the past, and probably will have more in the future. Why was this Al-Qaida attack so important?

Originally Posted by GuyontheRight

Then why is the US still carrying the bulk of combat operations in Afghanistan? If Europe really wanted to help, they'd stop debated the issue and take some action, or there going to have another Madrid.

Because it did not attempt to make it a NATO operation right from the start. In fact, it still hasn't done so. ISAF is a NATO operation, but US military operations in Afghanistan are separate from it.

Originally Posted by LCDR_SurfWar wrote

The British are probably our best allies. The French have to be our worst, with Germany close behind. Sorry to any French or Germans here...I know that not all of the population supports your governments' positions on Iraq.

When it comes to public opinion, there isn't much difference in attitudes toward Iraq across Europe. Everywhere, including in Great Britain, Poland, Spain, Italy, as well as France and Germany, the public opinion was heavily against the war in Iraq. It still is. Blair essentially took Britain to war against the will of his people.

Mod Edit: Don't make back to back posts.

Hi, gents. Thought this was an interesting thread, so thought I'd put in my 2 cents' worth;

Eric, you said that the Uk was pretty much a US colony, as the Uk felt more American than European.

Actually, I'm not sure I agree, speaking as a Briton. We've got close diplomatic, military and even some cultural ties to the US (and we still owe them a few quid from WWII Lend-Lease, etc,etc!!) but equally, we've got close political, economic and cultural ties to continental, or at least Western Europe.

I'm neither a European or a US colonial, myself; just British.

Come on Sherman...
Since the early seventies, France, Germany, England, Italy, Spain and Greece have lived throught terrorism....
Baader Manhof, Armata Rossa, Action Directe, ETA, IRA + all the Lybians, Palestinians, Armenians,Algerians...
We have had armed troops in the street since the mid eighties...
For America, YES, terrorism is new....
We've been fighting it for about 30 years!

ahh, no offence, but the europian terror groups are mellow compared with the middle eastern ones. fact is that there is only one western country that takes casualties to terror on a weekly or even daily basis. I dont know about the europians having troops in the streets, ive been to the UK and the only troops i saw in london were those guys with the big hats and the horses(forgot their name). Ive been to athenes and the only troops I saw were inside gov. buildings. either way the europian govs have a very strange way of fighting terror. You cant be anti-osama and pro-saddam at the same time. Its just dosent work.

The current european terrorist groups dont seem as important as al queda currently but in the past the european terrorist groups were a big threat, the IRA has killed between 1969 and 1999 3637 people!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...ovisional_ira/

In london did you notice there were no bins i the streets? the IRA used to bombs in the bins when they were there!

Compared to some middle eastern terrorist groups they might seem a bit mllow but the british, french, spanish etc. governments are still fighting terror.

Wheres the link between osama and saddam?

Wheres the link between osama and saddam?

Did I ever say there was a physical link? The link is that they are both a threat to the free nations of the world. Saddam and Osama are distabelizers. They also both evil. You cant be pro one evil and against another.

Saddam is not the secular socialist he was In the 80s. Both men used Islam as a weapon against democracy, obviously Osama more then Saddam.. The point is they both are enemies of the west, and although they may be in convluct with each other, I remind you of the familier phrase: My enemies enemy is my friend.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

Did I ever say there was a physical link? The link is that they are both a threat to the free nations of the world. Saddam and Osama are distabelizers. They also both evil. You cant be pro one evil and against another.

I agree with you that they are both a threat to the free nations, though if you were an iraqi you could be pro saddam and anti-osama, but i cant see anyone else who would. regarding americas allies Britain, australia, italy are the main allies currently against the terrorists but apart from countries like syria, iran , north korea the whole world is its ally as no country wants terrorists like al-queda or rogue nations like north korea.