[quote="the_13th_redneck"]You're very much a "people rise up!" kind of person aren't you?

You don't have to be a "people rise up" kind of people. In fact, I think 99.99999% of Chinese would have beef with you when you are saying that TaiWan is not part of China. This is a reality

As I say The original poster can be :

1. A westerner who did not understand what's going on
2. A Taiwanese who tried to denied the truth.

First,

1. YES TAIWAN HAVE THEIR OWN ABOROGINS, BUT,BUT,BUT! Dont ever use the name of aborogin to claim independence. FOR THE ABOROGINS WERE ALWAYZ OVERLOOKED BY THE GOVERNEMNT. And they were not even leadin g the Taiwanese politic.

2 If u wana talk about Taiwan history, I can tell u today most of the Taiwaese came from Fujian Province. The very stubborn prove is that u guyz speaking the Fu Jian local language and claimed it as "Tanwanese language".

3. Historically, China had governed Taiwan 300 years ago. Started from Ming Dynasty. They give the same civil development just like in China mainland, so it's not a colonisation or imperialism.

4. Taiwan was CUT to Japan by the Ch'ng Dynasty. This meant that Taiwan were a part of China territory historically. AND WAS OFFICIALLY GIVEN BACK TO CHINA AFTER WW II just like Hong Kong

5. If Communist never won the civil war. Will Taiwan everyday came out and said " WE R INDEPENDENT!!!!"? SURELY NOT! And by this logic, we know that except for Taiwan had an own political system, they r not suppose to be separated from CHINA!

Those Tai-du (Taiwan Independent) fellas, stop ur moaning and bluffing. For u guyz betray us and al;wayz claimed Japan as ur freind. How can u do this to Chinese? U r embarrasing us!

98% of ppl are in taiwan are not the natives come from somewhere in 10000years ago, they come from china in Ming, Qing and Nationalist era, there has never been a day since Yuan dynasty that Taiwan ppl can live without mainland. Qing government tried once to cut all the ties between taiwan and mainland when trying to conquer taiwan which was in Zheng Jing--Zheng Cheng Gong's son---'s hand,
today, the trade with mainland (not including HK and Macao) is some 22% in Taiwan's total trade revenue and export is like 40%,
taiwan's true history is easy to learn---tie with mainland, it is a part of mainland, its hisotry is a part of history of China,
if anyone tries to distort history, go to hell

Asskicker wrote:

if anyone tries to distort history, go to h**l

LMAO, right on Bro!

Originally Posted by Asskicker

there has never been a day since Yuan dynasty that Taiwan ppl can live without mainland.

While I'm sure that influence from the mainland has been good, lets be realistic. The people of Taiwan most definitely CAN "live without mainland" ... I guess it depends on what you mean though. Your wording would suggest that every person on that island would suddenly drop dead if mainland China somehow ceased to exist. I assume you meant something else.

if anyone tries to distort history, go to h**l

I think the biggest problem here is that we don't have enough unbiased information to know the true history of Taiwan. Obviously, somebody did some hefty rewriting of history. The question is, who? PRC or somebody in Taiwan? Somebody else? Somebody's gotta be right, the two stories don't match.

well,wut u have just said seems to show that u know alot about chinese history, and assume u r, u should well be able to see the tie between china and taiwan,

we see history of taiwan from many old history books from china, like 24 Shi, including all the dynasties' offical written records---they are not communists!!! those history should be considered accurate!!!


and like u say, taiwan can really fall dead if it cuts tie with mainland china,
its economy will fall backward 20-40 years
its ppl will be nothing more than a bunch of abandoned traitors, dogs
there will be no investment for taiwanese in china
no culture association between china and taiwan
a war may break out and kill all taiwanese,
taiwan wants to be independant??
they have to pay!! just like when china tries to free itself from japan, millions of ppl died, taiwanese have to pay that price too if they want to seperate from china

Originally Posted by Ezechiel

As I say The original poster can be :

1. A westerner who did not understand what's going on
2. A Taiwanese who tried to denied the truth.

First,

1. YES TAIWAN HAVE THEIR OWN ABOROGINS, BUT,BUT,BUT! Dont ever use the name of aborogin to claim independence. FOR THE ABOROGINS WERE ALWAYZ OVERLOOKED BY THE GOVERNEMNT. And they were not even leadin g the Taiwanese politic.

2 If u wana talk about Taiwan history, I can tell u today most of the Taiwaese came from Fujian Province. The very stubborn prove is that u guyz speaking the Fu Jian local language and claimed it as "Tanwanese language".

3. Historically, China had governed Taiwan 300 years ago. Started from Ming Dynasty. They give the same civil development just like in China mainland, so it's not a colonisation or imperialism.

4. Taiwan was CUT to Japan by the Ch'ng Dynasty. This meant that Taiwan were a part of China territory historically. AND WAS OFFICIALLY GIVEN BACK TO CHINA AFTER WW II just like Hong Kong

5. If Communist never won the civil war. Will Taiwan everyday came out and said " WE R INDEPENDENT!!!!"? SURELY NOT! And by this logic, we know that except for Taiwan had an own political system, they r not suppose to be separated from CHINA!

Those Tai-du (Taiwan Independent) fellas, stop ur moaning and bluffing. For u guyz betray us and al;wayz claimed Japan as ur freind. How can u do this to Chinese? U r embarrasing us!

Ouch.

1. Yes, it's not the sole reason to declare TI. But remember, this is not about those people anymore, it's about the people who currently live on the island. TI cannot be decided purely by where the people came from or originated. Why are more and more people pro-TI? Ever wondered why? Is it becuase we are all brainwashed? Maybe. Then why are you so stuck on reunification? Do you truly care? Have you been inconveniented by not having Taiwan has part of your land? Besides visiting it, of course.

2. The undeniable fact is that people in Taiwan came from many places, mainland China being a big place among others. No one in Taiwan will deny this. My grandfather in fact was from Hunan. You develop deep ties with the place you are most familiar to you though, not some big piece of land where we were taught to call our mother country when you don't even know what the streets there look like. And especially not when they threaten to rip you apart on a regular basis.

3. Civil development? Go visit Taiwan first before you claim that. Locate a government building built at that age. Then go to China, and let me know how they resemble, or if you even find one in Taiwan. Civil development did not truly start until, sadly, the Japanese got here. Did Ming teach the kids in Taiwan? Built schools?

4. This goes to show a lack of understanding. Taiwanese NEVER treated the Dutch, the Manchu, the Japanese, and even the KMT government as their governors. They are occupiers and invaders, and the Taiwanese people were just being passed around like a piece of meat among the occupiers. The fact that Taiwan changed hands from one occupier to another does not mean that the Taiwanese acknowledged either.

5. How do you know? Do you know what happened in 1947 when KMT had control of Taiwan? Do you know how many battles the Japanese had to fight with the native Taiwanese? The Dutch? Who's to say that Taiwanese people won't continue the fight the invaders? Taiwanese people are not 'not supposed to be separated from China', it's that 'Chinese people are not supposed to let Taiwan be separated from China'. Why? List a less sugar-coated reason why China wants Taiwan. We are brothers? We are a family? I don't see my sister holding a knife in my face if I wanted to move out.

Err, nobody betrayed you, wake up. We just want a land of our own. Where we are free to travel the world and have rights in the global community, where we don't have to fear some 300 missiles on our asses daily, where we can decide what we want to do, and go where we want to go. Give us a big reason to go back to our big brother. Where was the help when SARS broke out? Why did the Chinese government insisted that all aids be routed through the Chinese Red Cross in 921 earthquake? What are you doing with the missiles aiming at us? I'll tell you what, treat us better, and the people will overthrow the government ourselves and welcome you. Until you can do more for us than what we can do for ourselves, don't say we betrayed you.

But then, you are stronger, you are bigger, and you are much more powerful. But you can't have a pie and eat it, you will be invading us. We are prepared, but don't say we are rightfully yours. Just claim it with force and admit that you are bullying us, why not? You got the fist.

Originally Posted by Asskicker

if anyone tries to distort history, go to h**l

History is written by victors. When you win, you get to write whatever you want.

Originally Posted by Asskicker

well,wut u have just said seems to show that u know alot about chinese history, and assume u r, u should well be able to see the tie between china and taiwan,

we see history of taiwan from many old history books from china, like 24 Shi, including all the dynasties' offical written records---they are not communists!!! those history should be considered accurate!!!


and like u say, taiwan can really fall dead if it cuts tie with mainland china,
its economy will fall backward 20-40 years
its ppl will be nothing more than a bunch of abandoned traitors, dogs
there will be no investment for taiwanese in china
no culture association between china and taiwan
a war may break out and kill all taiwanese,
taiwan wants to be independant??
they have to pay!! just like when china tries to free itself from japan, millions of ppl died, taiwanese have to pay that price too if they want to seperate from china

So China is kindly trying to save us before we fall flat on our faces right? Wow, I never knew the Chinese government were so friendly, indeed people in Taiwan are crazy to even consider TI!

Zyca, do you support CSB's independence?

Welcome on board