Top Ten Fighting Ships

S

Sea_Cadet

Active member
According to the Discovery channel:
10. Hood class battlecruiser
9. Deutschland class pocket battleship
8. Essex class aircraft carrier
7. Bismarck class battleship
6. North Carolina class battleship
5. Fletcher class destroyer
4. Ticonderoga class guided missile Aegis cruiser
3. Queen Elizabeth class battleship
2. Nimitz class nuclear aircraft carrier
1. Iowa class battleship
 
I'm really beginning to hate the Discovery channel for these stupid lists.

A sinlge Nimitz class carrier can really take out an entire small country just on its own. How does a retired battleship class that rarely was in battle compete?
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]W[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]arrior[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] began active service most inauspiciously. She froze to the slipway when she was launched on December 29th 1860 during the coldest winter for 50 years. Frozen snow covered the dockyard and Thames braziers blazed down the ship's sides but when Sir John Pakington, First Lord of the Admiralty, came to do the honours, she refused to budge. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Extra tugs and hydraulic rams pulled her while hundreds of men ran from side to side on her upper deck, trying to rock her free. After 20 minutes, she finally gave way. Sir John smashed a bottle of wine over her bow with the words "God speed the Warrior"[/FONT]
serv2.jpg

Warrior later in her career​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Warrior was obsolete within a decade. She was relegated to the Reserve Fleet ranks and in 1883, withdrawn from sea service. She was now little more than a floating hulk, although still officially classed an armoured cruiser. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Her masts and guns were stripped when she was used as a depot ship for two years. Her name became Vernon III in 1904, when she joined Portsmouth-based HMS Vernon, the Navy's torpedo training school. Her role was supplying steam and electricity to neighbouring hulks. A year later, another armoured cruiser called Warrior was launched. [/FONT]
milhavbound.jpg

March 13 1929, leaving Portsmouth Harbour for Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven

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​



serv1.jpg

Warrior early in her career
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Hon Arthur Cochrane, son of the Earl of Dundonald, became her captain after her commission on August 1st 1861. The ship underwent minor modifications after a sea trial. In June 1862, she started active service in the Channel Squadron, patrolling coastal waters and sailing to Lisbon and Gibraltar. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Crowds of up to 6,000 people turned out to see the new supership as she visited British ports. She never once fired a shot in anger. Her strength was her ability to keep the peace. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Foreign navies soon imitated her advanced features, and armour-plated lookalikes with even greater firepower rolled down dockyard slipways. Engine designs improved steadily, with coaling stations springing up in ports all over the world. [/FONT]
vernon.jpg

Warrior, second from left, during the early part of the Twentieth Century​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nobody wanted the old battleship when she went up for sale in 1924. Five years on, she inherited the name Oil Fuel Hulk C77 when starting life as a shipkeeper's home and floating oil jetty at Pembroke Dock in Wales. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some 5,000 ships refuelled alongside her in her 50 years at Pembroke. However, the Royal Navy kept her in reasonable condition with occasional maintenance trips into dry dock keping her hull intact. Warrior was the only example of the 45 ironhulls built between 1861 and 1877 to survive.[/FONT]
llancove1979.jpg

Home for 50 years. Llanion Cove on the Cleddau River, Wales.​
 
Whispering Death said:
I'm really beginning to hate the Discovery channel for these stupid lists.

A sinlge Nimitz class carrier can really take out an entire small country just on its own. How does a retired battleship class that rarely was in battle compete?
Click to expand...
As long as that country doesn't have any submarines ...
 
Well it's the exact same deal with the Iowa-class, I'm not sure what you're getting at?

Should carriers not be designed to work in a fleet? That sounds like a bad idea to me.
 
This list is pretty bad

1. HMS Hood -sunk by a single 12" shell that pentrated her paper-thin armor like a hot knife through butter and blew the ship apart. In fact most historians consider the Battlecrusier idea to be a bad seeing how many of them were sunk in WWI.

2. Deutscheland Battleship. Another failed design, completely incapable of defending herself against armed opponents (too slow and too weak armor)
As for the others, well they arn't bad choices but there are other ships that deserve to be on the list more. For example

HMS Dreadnaught
HMS Victory
IJN Yamato (superior to USS Iowa)
USS Constitution
USS Monitor/CSA Virginia
 
mmarsh said:
As for the others, well they arn't bad choices but there are other ships that deserve to be on the list more. For example

HMS Dreadnaught
HMS Victory
IJN Yamato (superior to USS Iowa)
USS Constitution
USS Monitor/CSA Virginia
Click to expand...

Why the USS Contitution didn't make that list I don't know
 
Why is the Ticonderoga-class cruiser on there, yet the arguably more deadly Arleigh Burke-class destroyer is not?

Why is the Iowa-class on there at all?

Why is the Nimitz-class only second?

Can we just say the Discovery Channel "experts" are a bunch of morons and leave it at that?
 
c/Commander said:
Yes, yes, innovation and production and all that, correct?
Click to expand...

Nimitz class has all those in spades. I'm wondering how the Nimitz got placed behind a battleship that was made in the time when battleships where useless?
 
mmarsh said:
This list is pretty bad

but there are other ships that deserve to be on the list more. For example

HMS Dreadnaught
HMS Victory
IJN Yamato (superior to USS Iowa)
USS Constitution
USS Monitor/CSA Virginia
Click to expand...
While the USS Monitor was interesting because it was the first turreted warship to see both service and action, the CSA Viginia was nothing more than a poor copy of the Ironclads already in sevice with a number of European navies.
Both wouldn't have stood a chance in a battle against HMS Warrior, which was in sevice before either had been built.
 
Redcoat

I wont disagree, but I will say that CSA earned its place in the history books because she was the first Ironclad to see combat and the first ironclad to sink an enemy ship.
 
I do agree with the Nimitz and Iowa being the top two. If this means anything the Iowa was #1 on a Discovery Military Channel show with Nimitz at number two. They of course looked at armourment, years in service, firepower, etc.
 
Iowa class Battleship

Why would the ICB be on this list. Maybe because when the New Jersey was cruising off of Lebanon and encountered a missile site belonging to Hezbollah that was down in a valley and couldn't be reached by aircraft to take out. Along came the Jersey and blew the whole top of the mountain down on it. Ask Hezbollah or any of the other bad guys of the time their opinion of the New Jersey. Same as in Nam when she was doing fire missions. Marines loved her as the stable gun platform that she was, firing accurately from the sea where no one could touch her.
 
mmarsh said:
This list is pretty bad


IJN Yamato (superior to USS Iowa)
Click to expand...

Actually, the Iowa's had a far better armor scheme and far better material, the Iowa's 16/50's had almost the same armor penetration and actually detonated when they hit the target. Finally the Iowa's had excellent AA and Radar. Yamoto lacked all of these. And her sister ship Musashi was a vast improvement.

I think Iowa being # 1 is a stretch, but her armor could still take 21 Exocet Missiles and the BB could still keep on steaming, and it would take 4-6 M48 ADCAP's to make a big enough hole to bring one down (Compare to USS Cole being nearly sunk by a suicide bomber). Finally those 16'' guns can make a 200 foot wide and 50 feet deep crater and you can chuck thousands of them over the horizon for cheap.
 
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LeEnfield said:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]W[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]arrior[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] began active service most inauspiciously. She froze to the slipway when she was launched on December 29th 1860 during the coldest winter for 50 years. Frozen snow covered the dockyard and Thames braziers blazed down the ship's sides but when Sir John Pakington, First Lord of the Admiralty, came to do the honours, she refused to budge. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Extra tugs and hydraulic rams pulled her while hundreds of men ran from side to side on her upper deck, trying to rock her free. After 20 minutes, she finally gave way. Sir John smashed a bottle of wine over her bow with the words "God speed the Warrior"[/FONT]
serv2.jpg

Warrior later in her career​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Warrior was obsolete within a decade. She was relegated to the Reserve Fleet ranks and in 1883, withdrawn from sea service. She was now little more than a floating hulk, although still officially classed an armoured cruiser. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Her masts and guns were stripped when she was used as a depot ship for two years. Her name became Vernon III in 1904, when she joined Portsmouth-based HMS Vernon, the Navy's torpedo training school. Her role was supplying steam and electricity to neighbouring hulks. A year later, another armoured cruiser called Warrior was launched. [/FONT]
milhavbound.jpg

March 13 1929, leaving Portsmouth Harbour for Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven​

IntroductionConstructionHistoryLife on BoardThe OfficersWarrior in BattleRestorationFacts & FiguresWarrior AssociationWeddings on BoardPrivate & Corporate EntertainmentProgramme of EventsFilm & TV LocationA Plea for HelpDonation FormFeedback FormLinks​




serv1.jpg

Warrior early in her career
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Hon Arthur Cochrane, son of the Earl of Dundonald, became her captain after her commission on August 1st 1861. The ship underwent minor modifications after a sea trial. In June 1862, she started active service in the Channel Squadron, patrolling coastal waters and sailing to Lisbon and Gibraltar. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Crowds of up to 6,000 people turned out to see the new supership as she visited British ports. She never once fired a shot in anger. Her strength was her ability to keep the peace. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Foreign navies soon imitated her advanced features, and armour-plated lookalikes with even greater firepower rolled down dockyard slipways. Engine designs improved steadily, with coaling stations springing up in ports all over the world. [/FONT]
vernon.jpg

Warrior, second from left, during the early part of the Twentieth Century​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nobody wanted the old battleship when she went up for sale in 1924. Five years on, she inherited the name Oil Fuel Hulk C77 when starting life as a shipkeeper's home and floating oil jetty at Pembroke Dock in Wales. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some 5,000 ships refuelled alongside her in her 50 years at Pembroke. However, the Royal Navy kept her in reasonable condition with occasional maintenance trips into dry dock keping her hull intact. Warrior was the only example of the 45 ironhulls built between 1861 and 1877 to survive.[/FONT]
llancove1979.jpg


Home for 50 years. Llanion Cove on the Cleddau River, Wales.​
Click to expand...

Sea_Cadet said:
According to the Discovery channel:
10. Hood class battlecruiser
9. Deutschland class pocket battleship
8. Essex class aircraft carrier
7. Bismarck class battleship
6. North Carolina class battleship
5. Fletcher class destroyer
4. Ticonderoga class guided missile Aegis cruiser
3. Queen Elizabeth class battleship
2. Nimitz class nuclear aircraft carrier
1. Iowa class battleship
Click to expand...

mmarsh said:
This list is pretty bad

1. HMS Hood -sunk by a single 12" shell that pentrated her paper-thin armor like a hot knife through butter and blew the ship apart. In fact most historians consider the Battlecrusier idea to be a bad seeing how many of them were sunk in WWI.

2. Deutscheland Battleship. Another failed design, completely incapable of defending herself against armed opponents (too slow and too weak armor)
As for the others, well they arn't bad choices but there are other ships that deserve to be on the list more. For example

HMS Dreadnaught
HMS Victory
IJN Yamato (superior to USS Iowa)
USS Constitution
USS Monitor/CSA Virginia
Click to expand...
1st iron hulled warship was USS Michigan, unfortunatly built on a Great Lake, so no opportunity to acomplish anything other than being a guard ship for the Johnson Island POW Camp. Scrapped in the 1950s. As far as Warrior being the only surviving iron hull warship from up to 1877 to survive, that's wrong also. The Chilean Huascar was built in 1865 (looks like it's related to CSS Stonewall) & captured from Peru in the War of the Pacific. HMS Dreadnought definatly was a revolutionary design between the gun araingement & the turbine engines. Battlecruisers were a specialty design for going long distances quickly to eliminate enemy Cruisers. Never meant to take on other Battle Cruisers or Battleships. Eggshells armed with hammers. Only proper use was the deplyment of 2 for the 1st Battle of the Falkland Islands. USS Constitution was a step up in frigate design. Monitor certainly important. Bismarck had its flaws. Deutschland was classed as an "Armored Ship" a better discription than the "Pocket Battleship" designation by the British. While an innovative design to get the best ship within Treaty restrictions, in reality it's just a large gunboat. Perhaps the old "Armored Cruiser" designation would have been appropriate, except for lack of speed.
 
George

USS Michigan had no history, other than the first to be built. Its abit like the Me-262 fighter. The 262 was not the first jet fighter, the first jet fighter to fly was the Heinkel 178, but the 262 gets the credit as the first as she was the first to see combat.

The CSA Virginia was the first to see combat and the first two destroy an enemy ship. On her very first sortie, in a single day she destroys Frigates USS Congress and USS Cumberland, forever changing naval Warfare. Therefore, CSS Virginia deserves the credit even though she wasnt the first ironclad to be built.

As for the battle-cruiser, you are right, but that signals a serious flaw in her design. How the Royal Navy could have thought that the BC class would never face ships in her weight-class boggles the mind. Historically she was almost never used in her intended role, all of the BC adversaries where either enemy BC or BBs and they did extremely poorly against them.
 
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