I have not checked this on snopes, the link was posted at another forum I attend, I thought it would be a good debate here.

I personally think this is insane. This is something that should be dealt with in the home, not in school. One can have tolerance for homosexuals, and not support their lifestyle, I don't believe the schools should be forcing this issue in the classroom and in essence, perhaps brainwashing children.

http://www.massresistance.org/media/...inwashing.html



P.S. Never mind, never mind!

You cannot 'brainwash' someone to be homosexual. You will never be a homosexual if you are not genetically programmed that way. Its no different then trying to 'brainwash' someone to be black. You either are gay or are not.

When I see stuff like this I have a hard time deciding whether its badly misinformed people or is it a subliminal hate message they are trying to pass along. I have a sneaking suspicion that these people are against the 'homosexual agenda' as THEY call it (I have never heard gay people use the term). I think they just don't like gays period, and are too CHICKENSH** to admit they are bigots.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

You cannot 'brainwash' someone to be homosexual. You will never be a homosexual if you are not genetically programmed that way. Its no different then trying to 'brainwash' someone to be black. You either are gay or are not.

When I see stuff like this I have a hard time deciding whether its badly misinformed people or is it a subliminal hate message they are trying to pass along. I have a sneaking suspicion that these people are against the 'homosexual agenda' as THEY call it (I have never heard gay people use the term). I think they just don't like gays period, and are too CHICKENSH** to admit they are bigots.

Ahh, but of course your own statement shows you to be a "bigot" by disliking persons who state their own beliefs and hanging derogatory tags on them. So let's leave the nasty tags out of it, and look at it again.

Your whole argument revolves around your statement that no one can be brainwashed to be gay (which is only probably true), but this in no way supports or proves the theory that homosexuality is "born" into a person. There is no evidence whatsoever as yet, that homosexuality is not perhaps a thing of choice.

People who dislike homosexuals are no different to people who for example don't like Brussel Sprouts or spiders. It does not mean that they are inherently bad people, they are just people who have formed an opinion, usually as a result of personal experience. It is only political correctness that has made them "bad" people. Persons who express that dislike through anti social acts, such as exclusion or violence, are a cat of a completely different colour.

Personally I neither like nor dislike homosexuals as a group, I tend to judge them as individuals.

who here has a gay cousin? friend? I have both, growing up i knew my cousin to be gay. he would rather play dress-up while his brother (3 or 4 years younger) would sit there and shake his head. i think he was babied too much.

So what are you saying TogaOga; you can recognize gays because they play dress up when they are young? And being babied too much might make you soft, but gay..... I don't think so.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

You cannot 'brainwash' someone to be homosexual. You will never be a homosexual if you are not genetically programmed that way. Its no different then trying to 'brainwash' someone to be black. You either are gay or are not.

When I see stuff like this I have a hard time deciding whether its badly misinformed people or is it a subliminal hate message they are trying to pass along. I have a sneaking suspicion that these people are against the 'homosexual agenda' as THEY call it (I have never heard gay people use the term). I think they just don't like gays period, and are too CHICKENSH** to admit they are bigots.

I was not talking about the children being brainwashed to be homosexual. I was talking about them being brainwashed to agree with and support a lifestyle even if it against their religious or moral beliefs. One can be polite towards a lifestyle and not support it, that is what I'm talking about. These kids do not have a chance (within the class room) to share their views that do not support a lifestyle like this.

I believe there is a "homosexual agenda," why else would things like this be brought up in school? Why are gay pride parades held on the west coast like this last year, forcing firemen to attend and then they are thrown insults and cat calls? Why are things like this brought up in the class room? Do I believe that all homosexuals are forcing the issue on people to support what they do not believe in? No! I'm sure there are many that are good people, but the ones in control are the ones that are the most extreme. 'You better support my lifestyle or ELSE.'

I wouldn't want my child being told at perhaps as young as age five that liking men and women is okay and safe. Why aren't they told of the high amount of STDs that go along with being a gay man? Why aren't they speaking of religion and that even if you do not support this within your religious beliefs that you can still be polite towards people. This is all bright sunflowers and victimizing homosexuals.

Originally Posted by TogaOga

who here has a gay cousin? friend? I have both, growing up i knew my cousin to be gay. he would rather play dress-up while his brother (3 or 4 years younger) would sit there and shake his head. i think he was babied too much.

Now this I don't agree with at all. Boys can play with girl toys and they won't grow up to be gay. I used to dress my younger brother up in tutu's and other outfits and he's about as straight "man's man" as they come.

I also babysit for four kids, two of them being boys and they both love playing with "boy" toys AND playing with their sisters toys at times too. Do I think they will grow up gay? Very doubtful.

That is just silly.

Originally Posted by Ted

So what are you saying TogaOga; you can recognize gays because they play dress up when they are young? And being babied too much might make you soft, but gay..... I don't think so.

I guess it's just that what i was taught. i started thinking on what i had posted (and i believe i was wrong) but the story as is...as i should have explained earlier...was that at a young age, my cousin would sit there and prefer guys to girls and was always a momas boy...that in itself does not make a gay. however, dressing up and dancing around in your mother's dress (normal for a 5 yr old) but he was 12...? i think. is that normal for a 12 yr old?

Ahh, but of course your own statement shows you to be a "bigot" by disliking persons who state their own beliefs and hanging derogatory tags on them. So let's leave the nasty tags out of it, and look at it again.

Of course I am a bigot, most people are bigoted against somebody. My personal peeve is that I really dislike Hate groups and radical extremists of all kinds. And I really hate when people hide their hate by trying to pass it off as something else. This case in point, I don't believe there is such a thing as anti-gay agenda, only anti gay. But it simply isn't PC to say you're a Homophobe anymore.

Your whole argument revolves around your statement that no one can be brainwashed to be gay (which is only probably true), but this in no way supports or proves the theory that homosexuality is "born" into a person. There is no evidence whatsoever as yet, that homosexuality is not perhaps a thing of choice.

There is no 100% CONCLUSIVE proof, but then Global warming is "just a theory" as well (according to President Bush). Scientific research shows that its in likeliness both genetic and hereditary. There have been many studies done that have pointed to this. Even religious groups have acknowleged this, but the more radical of them have insisted that faith can "cure" them.

People who dislike homosexuals are no different to people who for example don't like Brussel Sprouts or spiders. It does not mean that they are inherently bad people, they are just people who have formed an opinion, usually as a result of personal experience. It is only political correctness that has made them "bad" people. Persons who express that dislike through anti social acts, such as exclusion or violence, are a cat of a completely different colour.

Personally I neither like nor dislike homosexuals as a group, I tend to judge them as individuals.

But its not by personal experience, at least not for most. Its about being manipulation by fear. People are sheep, if the yew at the head of the flock says that a certain minority is bad, the rest of the flock will believe it. It took a Nazi bad apple in Germany to convince the entire German population that their problems were because of the Jews. Same thing with the Ku Klux Klan, the South Burned because the Klan managed to turn everybody against blacks.

The anti-gay movement in America preaches to people's inate inner worst. Their message is that society is decline due to the moral corruption of gays, Mormons, immigrants, and Liberals. 30 years ago it was Catholics, Hippies, and Jews. Same old hate, just new packaging.

Originally Posted by TogaOga

I guess it's just that what i was taught. i started thinking on what i had posted (and i believe i was wrong) but the story as is...as i should have explained earlier...was that at a young age, my cousin would sit there and prefer guys to girls and was always a momas boy...that in itself does not make a gay. however, dressing up and dancing around in your mother's dress (normal for a 5 yr old) but he was 12...? i think. is that normal for a 12 yr old?

You do not need to apologize for your post, friend. You are entitled to express your views as you see them. No problem, and a legitimate post.

Of course I am a bigot, most people are bigoted against somebody.

The very word "Bigot" isinflammatory and most often used as a put down, which in my opinion is not the way to go when we have a beef about someone else's legitimately held beliefs.

My personal peeve is that I really dislike Hate groups and radical extremists of all kinds. And I really hate when people hide their hate by trying to pass it off as something else. This case in point, I don't believe there is such a thing as anti-gay agenda, only anti gay

. But it simply isn't PC to say you're a Homophobe anymore.

But Political correctness is the root cause of most of the bitterness in these debates. It should be outlawed, as it really only represents the opinions of a very vocal minority. In my experience, true "Hate" groups are not so shy and retiring as to worry about what people think of them. People who do as you describe are more likely to be persons who do not wish to cause disharmony they are people who although they wish to state their feelings, do not want confrontation, and if this is true they hardly rate as a Hate group.

There is no 100% CONCLUSIVE proof, but then Global warming is "just a theory" as well (according to President Bush). Scientific research shows that its in likeliness both genetic and hereditary. There have been many studies done that have pointed to this. Even religious groups have acknowleged this, but the more radical of them have insisted that faith can "cure" them.

Now that is what I would call really desperate reasoning. It is true that there is no conclusive evidence that Global Warming is man made, so therefore I suppose GW is correct in his assumption. As for quoting the thoughts of Religious groups as definitive evidence, all I can say is that the mind boggles. These are people who stand up in all seriousness and denounce the theory that man possibly evolved from apes, yet in the same breath they will gladly quote that man was made from,.... dirt?? Please spare me.

But its not by personal experience, at least not for most. Its about being manipulation by fear. People are sheep, if the yew at the head of the flock says that a certain minority is bad, the rest of the flock will believe it. It took a Nazi bad apple in Germany to convince the entire German population that their problems were because of the Jews. Same thing with the Ku Klux Klan, the South Burned because the Klan managed to turn everybody against blacks.

You have just very accurately described the working principals of "Political correctness", it thrives where persons are too weak of character to stand and question it's reasoning. This has little to do with Hatred, but is more closely allied to a complete lack of moral fortitude.

The anti-gay movement in America preaches to people's inate inner worst. Their message is that society is decline due to the moral corruption of gays, Mormons, immigrants, and Liberals. 30 years ago it was Catholics, Hippies, and Jews.

Same old hate, just new packaging.

I was discussing "dislike", and I feel that the very word "hate" is another of these emotive words designed to get a reaction and is most often the cause of "hatred" in itself. As for the anti homosexual movement, from what I can see it is usually backed by the same extremist "Religious groups" that you were quoting earlier to support your argument.

As you may have gathered, I have a far greater concern about the effects of political correctness upon our society, than I will ever have about homosexuals or anti homosexuals. Homosexuals are in my view a complete "non event" and attract far more attention than they warrant, often at their own insistence in trying to gain acceptance.