Threats to American Security

Right now New Zealand has a Liberial Socialist Government. But at one point in time it will lead to a marxist/communist government. I've already lived in one hell hole of a communist country. And I don't want to see that happen to the USA. And wow, you listed three news companys. How about ABC, NBC, and CBS. Oh, don't forget CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Headline News, and PBS. And as for the economy. A economic recession doesn't happen over night. THe Clinton era caused it. With the rise and fall of the internet market. That was during Clinton. And also 9/11 was part of futher causing a economic recession. But last time I checked, the US un-enployement rate is getting smaller. Right now the un-emploement rate is at 5%. That's because there are those that don't want a job. 5% is a hell of alot lower than some other places last time I checked. Those of you in Europe should check out your nation's work force. Everywhere I go, I see places with signs that say. "Now Hiring", "Looking for Help", and "Help Wanted". There's jobs out there. People just have to get f their fat @$$ and look for a job.

WOW! The Republican party has controlled the government for the past four years in a row. OH MY GOD! If that was the case, I wouldn't be talking about the problems that we face today. Remember, the federial government is not the only part of the American government. There are the State and City governments. And last time I checked, Washinton DC, New York City, and Chicago are liberialy controlled. They restrict civilians from owning firearms, their crime rate is sky high, their youth are morons, and they always say that we should appeasse and speak with the terrorist. TOO HELL WITH THAT!
 
mmarsh said:
The History of the Conservative movement has to always blame someone else for societies ills. Whether it be Hitler blaming the Jews for losing WWI or right-wing Republicans blaming Liberals for todays ills as we see in other people's posts passing the blame is the only strategy that seems to work.

What I would like for someone for me to explain is how can the present problems in America (Iraq, Terrorism, poor economy, poor Foreign policy even worse Domestic One) be possibly blamed on liberals when Conservatives have controlled all the branches of Government plus the media for the past 4 years. Yes I said the conservative media, you cannot call the media liberal when its mostly controlled by groups like News Corp, Clearwater, and Sinclair.

The only conservative news outlet is talk radio and maybe Fox News and it tends to more centrist. I don't blame all bad problems on liberals, they are the bad problems. You can bring Hitler up all you want but he's gone. The Communist doctrine is alive and well in China, Russia, North Korea, VietNam. I could go on and on but in all I mentioned, liberalism hasn't and will never work. At least, in the US, we have food, basic Human Rights and what the whole world wants deep down, Freedom. Freedom that we won and didn't have handed to us which makes it even more precious.
 
Fox News is centralist are you kidding me? I used to be Republican myself (before the party went extreme right) so let me tell you something there is nothing centralist about FOX. Its nothing more then a mouthspiece for the Extreme Right. Even most republicans politicans admit that. Some of them such as McCain and Hagel have expressed disgust at FOX. Same goes for Clearwater and Sinclair. Remember how Sinclair blocked Brokows reading of the Iraq KIA, where was the free speech there?

I agree there are problems, but you failed to answer my prinicipal challenge which was how these problems the fault of the liberals. Most of these problems (not all) came with the Bush Administration, and worst of all these guys cannot even admit the slightest mistake. I find it infuriating that our soldiers die for the incompentence, stupidity, greed, deceitfulness, and sheer arrogence of this administration. And to think these same people persecuted Clinton for a feliatio. Simply Unbelievable.

Liberalism has never worked? Our greatest presidents were almost all liberals. Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Lincoln, Both Roosevelts, Eisenhower and despite his personal failings Clinton. Meanwhile our Worst presidents were almost all conservatives. Jackson, Buchanan, Harding, Hoover, Coolige, Reagan. Thats not to say there havent been stinker Liberals (LBJ or Carter) or good conservatives (Nixon, before he tried to take over the government).

No insult intended, but you need to review the definitions of both Communism and Liberalism, one preaches democracy the other totalitarianism. Your also wrong about Communism. The Communist Doctrine is alive in only one country China. And due to their booming economy I doubt it will be there for long. Russia is a semi-democracy drifting into totalarianism, Vietnam is Socialist. North Korea and Cuba claim to be communist but are in fact Dictatorships. Facism is more alive than Communism.

I work abroad in Europe for a US company (France). Let me tell you I have more civil liberties in Europe then I do back home. Do you really think its FREEDOM for Bush-Goons to make me sign an GOP-alligence form just to hear our President speak? Thats what the GOP did in NYC. Or to push peaceful protesters back 10-20 blocks from where the President is. Or to try and prevent oppossion radio from Broadcasting (NPR, Air America). Is that your idea of Freedom?

Because if it so, then Hitler is not so gone as you might believe.
 
So have you looked into the renouncing of your US citizenship? Might be plan for ya. Especially if you think POTUS is Hitler like.
 
mmarsh said:
Liberalism has never worked? Our greatest presidents were almost all liberals. Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Lincoln, Both Roosevelts, Eisenhower and despite his personal failings Clinton. Meanwhile our Worst presidents were almost all conservatives. Jackson, Buchanan, Harding, Hoover, Coolige, Reagan. Thats not to say there havent been stinker Liberals (LBJ or Carter) or good conservatives (Nixon, before he tried to take over the government).

Reagan one of the worst Presidents? Hahaha, no wonder your views are so off the deep end. You can't even get past your bias to make any accurate statements.

And those Presidents who are Liberal that you mention from the past they are the equivalent of what most conservatives stand for today. Todays liberals have morphed into someting totaly different from those presidents you are talking about, Carter(one of the worst presidents ever) is more like todays ideal liberal.

Besides the only reason you don't think Fox News is centrist is because it doesn't agree with your liberal nonesense. In fact anyone who doesn't agree with liberals are labeled extreme-right or even Nazis, gimme a break who are you trying to fool.

Fox was the first news broadcast that broke away from the left-leaning media, and all you liberal are foaming at the mouth over them so you call them all kinds of stuff. If you want extreme right there are other outlets. Fox News is centrist, if anything they are rigth/centrist they are not even close to being extreme right.
 
mmarsh said:
I find it infuriating that our soldiers die for the incompentence, stupidity, greed, deceitfulness, and sheer arrogence of this administration. And to think these same people persecuted Clinton for a feliatio. Simply Unbelievable.

If I'm not mistaken, those are the French colors you're showing. When I served in the Army, my CIC was President Kennedy and later President Johnson. While our politics differed, I would never, never have spoken of them using such vitriolic language. I think you have found the right country to work in and leave all us incompetent, stupid, greedy, deceitful, arrogant Americans to suffer here. We'll continue to fight and die for you just as in the past. While you enjoy your wine and French cooking OUR kids will be dying for you face down in the dirt.
 
mmarsh said:
Fox News is centralist are you kidding me? I used to be Republican myself (before the party went extreme right) so let me tell you something there is nothing centralist about FOX. Its nothing more then a mouthspiece for the Extreme Right. Even most republicans politicans admit that. Some of them such as McCain and Hagel have expressed disgust at FOX. Same goes for Clearwater and Sinclair. Remember how Sinclair blocked Brokows reading of the Iraq KIA, where was the free speech there?

I agree there are problems, but you failed to answer my prinicipal challenge which was how these problems the fault of the liberals. Most of these problems (not all) came with the Bush Administration, and worst of all these guys cannot even admit the slightest mistake. I find it infuriating that our soldiers die for the incompentence, stupidity, greed, deceitfulness, and sheer arrogence of this administration. And to think these same people persecuted Clinton for a feliatio. Simply Unbelievable.

Liberalism has never worked? Our greatest presidents were almost all liberals. Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Lincoln, Both Roosevelts, Eisenhower and despite his personal failings Clinton. Meanwhile our Worst presidents were almost all conservatives. Jackson, Buchanan, Harding, Hoover, Coolige, Reagan. Thats not to say there havent been stinker Liberals (LBJ or Carter) or good conservatives (Nixon, before he tried to take over the government).

No insult intended, but you need to review the definitions of both Communism and Liberalism, one preaches democracy the other totalitarianism. Your also wrong about Communism. The Communist Doctrine is alive in only one country China. And due to their booming economy I doubt it will be there for long. Russia is a semi-democracy drifting into totalarianism, Vietnam is Socialist. North Korea and Cuba claim to be communist but are in fact Dictatorships. Facism is more alive than Communism.

I work abroad in Europe for a US company (France). Let me tell you I have more civil liberties in Europe then I do back home. Do you really think its FREEDOM for Bush-Goons to make me sign an GOP-alligence form just to hear our President speak? Thats what the GOP did in NYC. Or to push peaceful protesters back 10-20 blocks from where the President is. Or to try and prevent oppossion radio from Broadcasting (NPR, Air America). Is that your idea of Freedom?

Because if it so, then Hitler is not so gone as you might believe.


You talk about the reading of the KIA list from Iraq. I find that down right evil. These liberial talking heads say that they're for supporting our soldiers. And then they get on TV and make our guys look like scumbags and criminals. HELL NO! What Brokov did is in my opinion treason. It's aiding and helping the enemy. By broadcasting that and every other lie. They give recuiting power to the enemy. It lets the like of Usama bin Laden recuit young childern and brainwash them to become MURDER BOMBERS. Not Sucide bombers, but murder bombers. Why, because they plan to kill innocent civilians. Not kill themselves. Stay in France, becuase I sure wouldn't welcome you back in the USA.

5.56X45mm
Soldier, Patriot, and Cuban-American!

PS - Communism is alive and well in South America, Africa, Aisa, and Russia.
 
North Korea and Cuba claim to be communist but are in fact Dictatorships. Fascism is more alive than Communism.

What did you drink, mate?

Countries are not what you label them, I'm sorry. Countries are what they are: NK, Cuba, PRC , Viet Nam, Belarus are hardcore dictatorships precisely because they are Communist. It's not "they are not communist, they are just dictatorships". They are huge jails for innocent people who deserve freedom. Those countries are just what remains of the Empire of Evil, the one that one of the best Presidents ever contributed to defeat, to your own dismay and disappointment, I guess.

I work abroad in Europe for a US company (France). Let me tell you I have more civil liberties in Europe then I do back home.

Do you really think someone is gonna buy this? There is nothing, if you except drinking age and smoke, where my country, or France, is freer than the US. We're even less democratic than they are. You should know that France is not loved by other European countries, apart from Belgium maybe, and we have plenty of reasons I tell ya. You picked the one wrong example.
 
5.56X45mm said:
Right now New Zealand has a Liberial Socialist Government. But at one point in time it will lead to a marxist/communist government.

well i'll be sure to let you know when that happens lol!
NZ has made the most progress under leftist labour governments, many of the things that have made my life what it is today are a direct result of "socialist" policies.


state funded housing for low income families,
free healthcare
free schools (up to university level)

considering that we were more socialist in the 1930's....and here we are...still a thriving democracy. what i put this down to is that we are, by and large, a happy content nation.
 
03USMC said:
So have you looked into the renouncing of your US citizenship? Might be plan for ya. Especially if you think POTUS is Hitler like.

I have to be honest here and say that this post along with Missileer's theories and 5.56X45mm's sentiments interest me because I think you have completely lost sight of what freedom is all about, the sentiments exhibited here seem to be that freedom is the right to agree with what is happening or SOD off.
However I think you will find that those sentiments are more in line with dictatorships than free nations (and to clarify for the overly sensitive I am not accusing the US of being a dictatorship).

mmarsh said:
No insult intended, but you need to review the definitions of both Communism and Liberalism, one preaches democracy the other totalitarianism. Your also wrong about Communism. The Communist Doctrine is alive in only one country China. And due to their booming economy I doubt it will be there for long. Russia is a semi-democracy drifting into totalarianism, Vietnam is Socialist. North Korea and Cuba claim to be communist but are in fact Dictatorships. Facism is more alive than Communism.

Personally I think this is one of the most accurate posts made in this thread.
 
MontyB said:
mmarsh said:
No insult intended, but you need to review the definitions of both Communism and Liberalism, one preaches democracy the other totalitarianism. Your also wrong about Communism. The Communist Doctrine is alive in only one country China. And due to their booming economy I doubt it will be there for long. Russia is a semi-democracy drifting into totalarianism, Vietnam is Socialist. North Korea and Cuba claim to be communist but are in fact Dictatorships. Facism is more alive than Communism.

Personally I think this is one of the most accurate posts made in this thread.

This is accurate? Don't make laugh.

Was there even any one communist country not ruled by a dictator, or a totalitarian oligarchy?

China is barely communist, they are only thriving because they incorporated capitalism.

Veitnam = Communist State.

Cuba = Communist State.

North Korea = Communist state one-man dictatorship.

Get your facts straight. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html

I think the reason alot of people associate communism with liberalism, is because liberals have this glamorized version of communism. As if communism even actually worked before to the benefit of the population under it. It never has and it never will.

[Actually some classify Cuba as a socialist state. Do I want to live in a socialist state---No thanks!!!]
 
see now you are all bashing the left/liberals/red/commies (whatever names you want really) without really appreciating where it comes from. this page might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism

some highlights


The early socialists were utopians: they developed visions of ideal societies based on absolute equality, in which humans co-operated in production for the benefit of all without the need for material incentives, and in which the state was abolished in favour of a system of self-government, or (in a positive sense) anarchy.

The emergence of socialist ideas in Britain and France, and later in Germany and Italy, was a consequence of the industrial revolution. In these countries, the development of manufacturing industry, and related industries such as coal-mining and the railways, produced an industrial working class, referred to by socialists as the proletariat: workers who had nothing to sell but their labour. The misery of the industrial workers in the unregulated economies of the early 19th century provoked anger among many observers, and the formulation of socialist principles was an attempt to devise a way of producing wealth without such crude exploitation. Socialism gained popularity among the working class itself, and, from the mid-19th century onwards, workers formed the backbone of the socialist movement.

Of course, many upper- and middle-class people who were not socialists were also outraged by the plight of the working class. Their response was liberalism: the belief that an enlightened middle class could reform the operations of capitalism so as to produce social justice without infringing the rights of property owners. English thinkers such as John Stuart Mill were at the forefront of this movement. Although Mill considered himself a socialist, he also believed in private ownership of the means of production -- he reserved his socialism for matters of distribution, which he considered a separate subject. In France in 1830 and in England in 1832, liberal political ideas triumphed, and this did much to take the wind out of the sails of the early socialist movement.


but here is the crux of it:

In Marx's theory, "socialism" referred to the stage of history and class structure immediately following the revolution, in which power would pass to the proletariat. According to Marx, once private property had been abolished, the state would then "wither away," and humanity would move on to a higher stage of society, "communism." This distinction continues to be used by Marxists, and is the cause of much confusion. No Marxist, for example, ever claimed that the Soviet Union was a communist society, even though it was ruled by a Communist Party for 70 years. The name of the party is not meant to reflect the name of the social system.
 
Missileer

I think your bigotry is showing, (the old lets bash France)...
If it werent for France there wouldnt be a US, and if it weren't for the US the French would have remained under Nazi occupation. So its a tie. I call that the perfect type of ally because both nations has spilt blood for the other. Same Goes for the UK.

Thank you for misquoting me. I clearly said THIS ADMINISTRATION meaning the Bush Adminitration and not Americans in general.
If your going to try and disprove me by all means try, but dont make s*** up, Ok?

About my earlier comments. T.Roosevelt disgrees with you. He said in 1920 "There is no truer test of Patriotism then of the American citizen to critize its government". So what you claim is Vitric language, Roosevelt calls Patriotism. Isn't Free Speech a wonderful thing?

03USMC

My patriotism is fine, its yours I'm worried about. Expelling those you dislike or disagree with is a mark of facism. Perhaps you feel those that disagree with King George I should be expelled? The last guys who thought that wore swastikas on their sleeve. What you just said is UNPATROITIC and UN-AMERICAN.

Being an American is not swollowing every Government spoon filled lie as truth. Espically when it comes from people who lie faster than they can breath.
 
Mmmmmmh ok Chewie just found out that the free world's worst threat after Hitler and before Bin Laden was NOT communism but something else.
Sure.
 
mmarsh said:
03USMC

My patriotism is fine, its yours I'm worried about. Expelling those you dislike or disagree with is a mark of facism. Perhaps you feel those that disagree with King George I should be expelled? The last guys who thought that wore swastikas on their sleeve. What you just said is UNPATROITIC and UN-AMERICAN.

What I said or what I asked? Because apparently you failed to understand the question. I didn't say I wanted to expell you. I
asked you if you you had thought about renouncing your citizenship since apparently you believe the US is now the Fourth Reich.

Comparing yourself to the Founding Fathers is a tad over the top. Since I recall very few of them sitting safely across the big pond amid hand wringing and gnashing of teeth whinning about how bad things were in the Colonies.

As far as comparing my fews to that of a Nazi. Well Number one I wouldn't exactly fit in with all the Aryans. But then that is one of the fave retorts of the LibEuroAppeasement crowd isn't it.

Unpatriotic and UnAmerican. Yeah okay Skippy. Second fave retort for those who fail to smooch your 4th point.
 
Gladus

Clearly you have no idea what communism is. Very Briefly, Communism is rule by a single party who then chooses a leader, usually for life but not always. The Soviet Union and PRC are such examples. N.Korea and Cuba are not. Both these countries the Head of State wasnt selected but
became leader simply because they had the guns to do so.
Castro and Kim il Sung might call themselves a communist, or the Patron Saint of Constantinople. It doesnt mean a thing. Communism doesnt recognize heritiary succession (like a King) either so clearly you cannot claim N.Korea is communist. Both these countries were reviled by Moscow for being not communist enough in the 1960 and 1970's
 
What I said or what I asked? Because apparently you failed to understand the question. I didn't say I wanted to expell you. I
asked you if you you had thought about renouncing your citizenship since apparently you believe the US is now the Fourth Reich.

You were indirectly implying it, don't deny it I am not a fool. Apologize or rephrase if you that wasnt your intent but dont take me for stupid. Besides as I posted above criticizing the goverment is the mark of a Patroit.

Comparing yourself to the Founding Fathers is a tad over the top. Since I recall very few of them sitting safely across the big pond amid hand wringing and gnashing of teeth whinning about how bad things were in the Colonies.

I wasnt, you misunderstand. I was making a pun about Bush. As Bush tends to be the most autocratic President since Nixon, I though the name was funny.

As far as comparing my fews to that of a Nazi. Well Number one I wouldn't exactly fit in with all the Aryans. But then that is one of the fave retorts of the LibEuroAppeasement crowd isn't it.

You are right, You dont have to be Aryan Nazis a political philophy. Look at Sudan or ex-Yugoslavia they are not exactly blond hair blue eyes either. I never called you a Nazi, I just drew a simiarity between your statements about me and a certain political philiosophy.

Its true liberals use the term alot. But If conservatives dont want to be called Nazis then they should stop acting like one. Trying to shut me up by initimidation rather than dialogue because you dislike what I say is a tactic used by dictators, and its the principal tactic used by the Extreme right in our country. Why? because when they try rational discourse the liberals usually wipe the floor with them. Look at Election 2004, the whole Bush Campaign was a giant scare tactic.

Like I said, I was a republican (a liberal-moderate) but I cannot swollow a government that uses tactics such as this. And there are more and more GOP or ex-GOP who agree with me.
 
mmarsh said:
Missileer

I think your bigotry is showing, (the old lets bash France)...

Thank you for misquoting me. I clearly said THIS ADMINISTRATION meaning the Bush Adminitration and not Americans in general.
If your going to try and disprove me by all means try, but dont make s*** up, Ok?

Being an American is not swollowing every Government spoon filled lie as truth. Espically when it comes from people who lie faster than they can breath.

Soooo, France doesn't bash America every chance they get? TiT for TaT on that one, it's just that you can't take it.

I didn't misquote you. Since the Civil War ended, Everyone pledged allegiance to the Union of America. Any administration voted in is voted in by America. You can't separate the two, it's the will of the people. So you are disparaging Americans.Which is okay, it's legal. I wouldn't but you can. Of course the enemy loves reading your thoughts.

And lastly bigotry, wellll let's see, my nephew is half black and half white, I love him and always will. My Niece married a guy from Singapore and we're like Brothers, my youngest Son is dating the sweetest girl in the World, she's Ethiopian. My family looks like the rainbow when we congregate.

And as far as making _ _ _ _ up, I don't do that, I don't have to.
 
Gladus

You heard me Reagan was a BAD President.

1. Bad as in creating the worst Deficiet in US history.
2. The fiasco known as Trickle down economics.
3. He TRIPLED our national debt by the time he left office.
4. He traded Weapons for Hostages with an enemy of America. Or that he 5. Ignored the AIDS crisis
6. The expensive War on Drugs was a farce.
7. Became the 2nd most hated President in the World.

Let me guess your retort? the myth he ended the Cold War? Do you really think giving a sanctimonous speech in Moscow made the Soviet Union just dissappear? Russians are not easily initmated and they dont like threats. Did you see what they did in Chechnya? They didnt hesitate to level Grozny (their own city) to the ground. So do you really they were impressed by Reagan? BTW the guys really responisable where

1. Gorbechev, 2. Lech Welsa, 3. Pope John Paul II, 4. Maggie Thatcher 5. Francois Mitterand 6. Ronald Reagan.
 
mmarsh said:
Gladus

You heard me Reagan was a BAD President.

1. Bad as in creating the worst Deficiet in US history.
2. The fiasco known as Trickle down economics.
3. He TRIPLED our national debt by the time he left office.
4. He traded Weapons for Hostages with an enemy of America. Or that he 5. Ignored the AIDS crisis
6. The expensive War on Drugs was a farce.
7. Became the 2nd most hated President in the World.

Let me guess your retort? the myth he ended the Cold War? Do you really think giving a sanctimonous speech in Moscow made the Soviet Union just dissappear? Russians are not easily initmated and they dont
like threats. Did you see what they did in Chechnya? They didnt hesitate to level Grozny (their own city) to the ground. So do you really they were impressed by Reagan? BTW the guys really responisable where

1. Gorbechev, 2. Lech Welsa, 3. Pope John Paul II, 4. Maggie Thatcher 5. Francois Mitterand 6. Ronald Reagan.

You're teetering on the edge sonny.
 
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