Which of these tanks can perform the best?

Well, I'm not a Paratrooper yet. Just hoping to be. In approximately eight months (December) I'll have the entry tests.

But I'd hate to derail the thread, so by all means, let's get back on topic.

I haven't seen any mention of the Iron Fist and TROPHY systems in this thread. Is there any reason for that?
 
it was not the British with the 120mm was the south African army on the olifant "elephant" tank in Angola then adopted by the British
 
it was not the British with the 120mm was the south African army on the olifant "elephant" tank in Angola then adopted by the British

on the Olifant? I would like a source for that. The original olifant, before the newer versions, was bascially a Centurion. I can see a 120mm being fitted to the already cramped turret of a centurion. Moreover, the Olifant upgraded in the early 1990s to a better 105mm, according to this . Also in that source is a short part about the Olifant 2, which is being developed to carry a 120mm.

As far as the "no fair this is an English forum" stuff...Im sorry, dident mean to piss you guys off. What I wrote to Ice Tea is that if he is using the paratrooper badge as his avatar there is no wonder he dosent understand the point of rifled 120mm guns.
 
This video is about the TROPHY Active Protection System.

This one is for Iron Fist.

Are either system in mass use and mass production? In addition, Iron Fist and Trophy can be mounted to any armor vehicle, not specifically tanks which this thread pertains to. Both are just another add-on, just like ERA.

What in the case of multiple incoming projectiles? Something like a TOW would not be affected by it's jamming system, and with what appears to be a limited amount of defensive munitions, it would be hard for either to defeat multiple incomings, but the systems are none the less extremely impressive, and show the true inventiveness and out of the box thinking of IMI.
 
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Are either system in mass use and mass production?

Well, according to my understanding, during, or shortly after Operation Cast Lead, the IDF began to outfit a limited number of Merkava Mark 4 tanks with the Trophy system. So I'd guess it's in the late-late phases of testing.

Now I could very well be wrong on this, since I don't actually know what's going on inside the army. But I think I've heard it in the news.


In addition, Iron Fist and Trophy can be mounted to any armor vehicle, not specifically tanks which this thread pertains to. Both are just another add-on, just like ERA.

Concurred. The reason I am mentioning these systems is that they, or one of them, could (hypothetically, maybe) give the Merkava Mark 4 an edge over other tanks mentioned in this thread, especially if it could stop a tank round. That would be downright scary.


What in the case of multiple incoming projectiles? Something like a TOW would not be affected by it's jamming system, and with what appears to be a limited amount of defensive munitions, it would be hard for either to defeat multiple incomings, but the systems are none the less extremely impressive, and show the true inventiveness and out of the box thinking of IMI.

Theoretically, both systems should be able to tackle multiple threats at a time. As for the TOW, well, in case the jamming fails and the projectile keeps coming, there's the Plan B which Mack (I like his style) had mentioned - the Iron Fist will launch its own projectile against the incoming threat. What almost certainly assures success is that it doesn't have to hit the rocket directly, but simply explode near it, and it's a pretty big explosion, making missing nearly impossible. As for Trophy... actually, I have no idea what it launches at incoming threats. I think it's safe to say that Iron Fist is superior, because of its jamming ability if nothing else. It also seems to be newer.

Is "newer" a word?
 
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Now which tank has made a tank to tank kill at the longest range ever recorded and what weapon were they using, I think that should settle many an argument over what type of guns should be used in a tank.
 
Concurred. The reason I am mentioning these systems is that they, or one of them, could (hypothetically, maybe) give the Merkava Mark 4 an edge over other tanks mentioned in this thread, especially if it could stop a tank round. That would be downright scary.




Theoretically, both systems should be able to tackle multiple threats at a time. As for the TOW, well, in case the jamming fails and the projectile keeps coming, there's the Plan B which Mack (I like his style) had mentioned - the Iron Fist will launch its own projectile against the incoming threat. What almost certainly assures success is that it doesn't have to hit the rocket directly, but simply explode near it, and it's a pretty big explosion, making missing nearly impossible. As for Trophy... actually, I have no idea what it launches at incoming threats. I think it's safe to say that Iron Fist is superior, because of its jamming ability if nothing else. It also seems to be newer.

Is "newer" a word?


Well IMI is not the only company that has experimented and designed an active defense system. Here in the US we've been delving into the technology for quite some time, but never fielded anything to date, IMI however has been able to get it's system fielded much faster, and I a tribute that to the fact that the Israeli government doesn't impede it's defense companies with budget cuts, congressional investigations, and the likes, unlike our mighty bureaucracy.

Well I imagine it can stop any range of threats coming at it, but what I'm questioning is it's limited amount of munitions. Does it have an auto-reload, what is it's capacity of stowed defense ammo. I see it can stop a round fire at it, but can it stop seven rounds fired consecutively, can it defeat a multi-RPG barrage, how does it deal with multipe threats. In Iraq M1's are ambushed (usually without result) by multiple RPG teams from all sides, and for a good solid five minutes.
 
Odds are, the amount of munitions each system is capable of storing and how many simultaneous projectiles can be dealt with at a time are classified, since in this knowledge lies the key to hitting a Merkava Mark 4 equipped with these systems.

I think the Merkava usually doesn't have to deal with so many incoming threats all at once, but I honestly don't know enough to say. I imagine Sherman's got an infinitely better idea of what it's like.
 
I am under the impression that TROPHY can handle several threats at the same time. I am not sure, I never even saw the system other than in youtube videos.

Merkava faces the same ammount of threats as any other tank in the world, you can have 4-5 missiles comming at you one after the other, from diffrent angles. But the chance of two missiles comming in at the same millisecond is not high.


No one said active protection systems are perfect.
 
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TROPHY and Iron Fist (Israel), Quick Kill and SLID (USA), LEDS - Land Electronic Defence System (SAAB), TAMS (Marconi) (UK) - are the experimental system! Can you give me information about they used in the real battle ?
 
TROPHY and Iron Fist (Israel), Quick Kill and SLID (USA), LEDS - Land Electronic Defence System (SAAB), TAMS (Marconi) (UK) - are the experimental system! Can you give me information about they used in the real battle ?
Unless Israelis employed a few against Hezbollah no they haven't.
 
Unless Israelis employed a few against Hezbollah no they haven't.
Amphibological, left from the answer. For the 3 years with the development of the Trophy I haven't a photo MBT Merkava-3,4 with this APS.
 
I won't answer this according to their battle capability but M1A2 looks cool and I love to use it in some computer games. The French Leclerc is the ugliest one among them. According to a theory by me "If something looks cool, it can perform better" :)
 
I would say the best would be the Abrams, not counting what it takes to keep it moving. The thread is, after all, asking which PERFORMS the best. Close seconds are the Leopard 2 and the K2.
 
Speaking of the Abrams, anyone knows about cases of the Abrams being hit by Kornet-E or a similar missile(1200mm after ERA)?
 
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