Do you know who Marx married? Jenny von Westphalen, the daughter of Baron von Westphalen, a prominent member of Trier society, an extremely wealthy woman.
Seems to me he was a pretty smart guy indeed. He managed to fool all those idiots who happened to believe in his theories, while not believing in them himself.

It's always the case that the wealthy and affluent love to talk about how everyone else should be forced to give their money away. How many Democrats did you see choose to opt out of the tax break the Republicans passed over their objections? Crazy how they'll force you to pay taxes but won't do it voluntarily themselves.

As for communism, it's more than just nat taking into account human nature or the result in a "perfect world". It's just a stupid hateful system full of holes. Communism, by its definition, leaves no room for reward because everyone is supposed to be equal. So there if you can't reward people then how do you get them into the factory? Just because they love almost getting their hands chopped off in machinery every day? Nope. So you've got to have huge penal systems to punnish anyone and everyone and force them to live under fear so they do their job. You get everything everyone else has, but you have to live under fear your entire life. Sounds like far from a "perfect world" to me.

That's why free societies work, because the participants are compelled by rational self interest to produce and succeed, furthermore they are given the oprotunity to thrive if they do well enough. This is the problem of socialism, it's just 1/2 of communism. Communism has 2 parts.

1) Controll over production, the state owns the industries, companies, and workers
2) Controll over monotary distribution, the state decides what products go to whom.

Current socialist states like Europe don't have factor 1, but they have a large part of factor #2. The state gives you some of your money but takes most of it for itself to decide how to give out. The state decides how to spend the money and who gets what. If you're on welfare the state takes money from one person and gives it to you. etc. etc.

Why are Communists so attached to the color red?

Well, once again. The favorite nation that I love to make fun of has something to do with it.

You want the facts on a question like this, you have to go straight to the source, in this case the Great Soviet Encyclopedia. From this formidable work we learn that "popular uprisings occurred under red banners as early as the eighth century (the Red Banner rebellion in Iran) and in the 16th (the Great Peasant War in Germany) and 17th centuries." The Iranian thing is reaching a bit, but let us be kind.

The encyclopedia goes on: "The people of France fought under red banners against the king's rule in July 1792. With the revolt of June 5-6, 1832, in Paris, the red banner became a symbol of the blood spilled by the people and thus the banner of revolution, and after the Paris Commune of 1871 it became the banner of [specifically] proletarian revolution." The red banner was first flown in Russia in 1861 and became the Soviet flag in 1918.

Communist and Socialist can kiss my ***

'Nuff Said

I'm not sure I ready to do that 5.56x45 mm. But I guess you understand that.....

Gotta understand that, Ted, 5.56X45mm is one of our sweetest poets.
Joking aside, he has actually suffered the cruelty of Communism on a personal and familiar level.

I think more accurately it was at the hands of a totalitarian ruler. This is separate from the ideological base for the government. Both Hitler and Stalin were totalitarian but did not share the same ideology but their style of implementation was very similar indeed.

Sorry, just splitting hairs but it seems a valid point to bring up in all fairness.

Scumbags are still scumbags. Communism, Facism, and any other Socialism creates the same thing. Death and slavery. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's damn better than the other forms of government. And capitalism to me is a government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Mate, those aren't forms of government. Communism, facism, socialism and capitalism are different schools of thought on economics not politics.

Totalitarianism, monarchy, republic, authoritarianism and democracy are forms of government.

They are separate and in no way is any one economic system tied to a particular political system.

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

Scumbags are still scumbags. Communism, Facism, and any other Socialism creates the same thing. Death and slavery. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's damn better than the other forms of government. And capitalism to me is a government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Ask this to anyone who is really poor or to a government of a developing country. I'll bet you a sweet amount that they don't agree with you on this.

And as Bulldogg pointed out; don't mix government with economics! They aren't the same....

...not really.

You don't think there is any corollation whatsoever that Democratic countries, who emphasise personal freedom by the very nature of how they operate politically "voting", that there is no corollation that they are always Capitalist, which emphasises personal freedom through the economy.

And you don't think that there is any corollation whatsoever that Communist countries, who emphasize the power of the group and obediance to a 'central planner', almost always have had authoritarian systems which politically emphasize group cohesion (no dissenters) and obediance to the central ruler?

No corrolation at all, just crazy WD and his crazy ideas? Hmmm?