Posted 27/3/2007 @ 16:20:55 GMT

Just Like the Mullahs

The deep thinkers now torturing themselves for an explanation of the Iranian seizure of 15 British hostages should reread the ancient wisdom contained in the fable of the scorpion and the crocodile. The scorpion is desperate to cross the river, but can’t swim, so he begs the croc to give him a ride. The croc is afraid the scorpion will sting him. The scorpion promises he won’t. The croc gives him the ride. As they get to the far bank, the scorpion stings. The croc is disgusted and cries out “why did you do that? You promised...” And the scorpion says, “but I’m a scorpion.” ......

link to original article

By National Review Online

Just a quick question:
How exactly are these people hostages?

I accept its a nice emotional word to throw about but to my understanding and I may be wrong as this incident has been kept unusually quiet there have been no demands therefore at best they are being held by Iran.

I also find it odd that the incident hasn't been blown up by the UK/US as it is the perfect reason to attack Iran I also find it strange that the British ship didn't attempt to defend itself. I am beginning to wonder if they weren't in Iranian waters after all.

They are hostages because the UK, nor the US for that matter, is at war with Iran. They were seized in international waters in the course of a lawful action. What would you call them Monty? Guests at gunpoint??

Originally Posted by bulldogg

They are hostages because the UK, nor the US for that matter, is at war with Iran. They were seized in international waters in the course of a lawful action. What would you call them Monty? Guests at gunpoint??

Well the thing is the UK seems awfully quiet on the matter and we have two sides claiming different things so at this point I would say they are being held by Iranian forces but I wouldn't describe them as hostages.

using this definition:
1.a person given or held as security for the fulfillment of certain conditions or terms, promises, etc., by another.

2.Archaic. a security or pledge.

3.Obsolete. the condition of a hostage. –verb (used with object) 4.to give (someone) as a hostage: He was hostaged to the Indians.

They may be being illegally held by Iran I don't know and I doubt anyone on this board knows but until there are conditions applied to their release they are not hostages.

I find it odd that people who routinely lambaste the media for sensationalising things are so quick to throw out the emotives when it comes to demonising a country.

I really have to agree with Monty's logic.... I myself am shocked that an incident such as what has been reported hasn't become this huge deal yet, and hasnt been used to give and ultimatum of war.

Most strange to me in the report is the complete lack of "statements" made by either side being quoted...surely there would have been official diplomatic verbosity already for something of this magnitude!

UK declared that they will do whatever necessary to make Iran release their soldiers. Even an operation... And finally they freezed every relations with Iran.

And after the visit of Beckett to Turkey yesterday, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan called Iranian Foreign Minister Muttaki and he declared that Turkish diplomats may go to Iran and see the UK marines that are under arrest. So they may have information about their health and situation. But this is not absolute and it depends on Iranian foreign ministiry.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Just a quick question:
How exactly are these people hostages?

I accept its a nice emotional word to throw about but to my understanding and I may be wrong as this incident has been kept unusually quiet there have been no demands therefore at best they are being held by Iran.

I also find it odd that the incident hasn't been blown up by the UK/US as it is the perfect reason to attack Iran I also find it strange that the British ship didn't attempt to defend itself. I am beginning to wonder if they weren't in Iranian waters after all.

Hostage: some one who is seized against his/her will

LONDON, England (CNN) -- The one woman among a group of 15 British military personnel seized by Iran will be freed later Wednesday or Thursday, Iran's foreign minister has told CNN Turk.

The woman, identified as sailor Faye Turney, was seized last Friday by Iran along with 14 other British Royal Navy sailors and marines who were conducting a routine inspection of a merchant vessel at the northern end of the Persian Gulf.
"Today or tomorrow, the lady will be released," Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki told The Associated Press at an Arab summit he was attending in the Saudi capital Riyadh.

Earlier Wednesday Britain increased pressure on Iran, releasing evidence it said showed the group was operating in Iraqi waters and freezing bilateral contacts until the crisis is resolved. Iran insists the group was inside its territorial waters.
"We are now in a new phase of diplomatic activity," British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett told members of parliament.
"We need to focus all our bilateral efforts during this phase to resolution of this issue," she added. "We will therefore be imposing a freeze on all other official bilateral business with Iran until this situation is resolved."
The freeze means all official inward and outward visits will be stopped, visas to Iranian officials will not be issued, British support for other events such as trade missions to Iran is put on hold and government-to-government business on other issues will cease, the UK foreign office told The Associated Press.

Beckett also said the Iranian government was still refusing to give British officials information on exactly where the Britons were being held and was denying consular access to them.
A statement released by the Iranian embassy in London Wednesday said that all the British Navy personnel were in good condition.
Iranian officials said they would allow British diplomats to see the detainees once an investigation into the matter is completed, according to a statement from Iranian foreign ministry spokesman Seyyed Mohammadali Hosseini.

The Iranian embassy statement said that the two governments were capable of resolving the issue through close contact and cooperation.
"We believe this is purely a technical and legal issue and is not related to any other issue," the statement said.
Earlier, the British Ministry of Defense gave what it said was proof that the British ship carrying the sailors and marines never strayed into Iranian waters.
British Vice Adm. Charles Style said that the global positioning system on the ship proves the vessel was "clearly" 3.1 kilometers (1.7 nautical miles) inside Iraqi waters and that the 14 men and 1 woman who were inspecting a merchant ship were "ambushed" by the Iranian forces.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair said it is an "incontrovertible fact" that the "seizure" of British personnel in the Persian Gulf was "utterly without foundation."
The British sailors and marines were aboard frigate HMS Cornwall during a patrol to prevent smuggling, according to Britain's Ministry of Defense.
They were captured March 23 by members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards while conducting what Britain called a routine inspection of a merchant vessel near the mouth of the Shatt al-Arab, at the northern end of the Persian Gulf.
"These personnel were patrolling in Iraqi waters under a United Nations mandate," Blair said during a House of Commons session Wednesday.
Blair said his country is in contact with "everyone in Europe, NATO, the United Nations and the allies out in the Gulf region" to ratchet up pressure on the Iranian government.
'Hard to legitimate'

Iran insists the ship was inside its territorial waters and, according to Style, provided a map with coordinates on Saturday in attempts to prove the point.
Blair said those coordinates actually "turned out to confirm they were in Iraqi waters" and Iraq has supported that position.
Upon pointing that out Sunday through diplomatic contacts, Style said Iran then "provided a second set of coordinates" on Monday that were "in Iranian waters over two nautical miles" from the position shown by the HMS Cornwall and confirmed by the merchant vessel the British personnel boarded.
The "change of coordinates," Style said "is hard to legitimate."
The statement Wednesday from the Iranian embassy in London said the British personnel had made an incursion of 0.5 km (0.3 miles) into Iranian territorial waters.
Even if the ship had somehow strayed into Iranian waters, Beckett said, "under international law, warships have sovereign immunity in the territorial sea of other states."
"The very most Iran would've been entitled to do if they considered our boats were breeching the rules on innocent passage would've been to require the ship to leave their territorial waters immediately," the foreign secretary explained.
On Monday, hard-liners in Iran urged the government to charge the Britons with espionage and put them on trial.
Blair called for their immediate release on Wednesday and added that German Chancellor Angela Merkel will speak later in the day on behalf of the European Union to pressure Iran to release the detainees.
Blair said he has been in talks with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who said Wednesday Iran may allow Turkish diplomats access to the 15 Britons, according to CNN Turk.
Erdogan is attending a meeting of the Arab League in the Saudi capital, Riyadh.
"Expect development anytime soon," Erdogan said after meeting with Iran's foreign minister.

It is a classic example of hostage taking.

ba$ta^& mullahs

Wow some people have their head frimly placed up their arse....

I still love how the US moved a Navy force of 10,000 (2 air craft carrier groups) and are doing manuvers in the area (practicing attacking enemy ships)...

I also love how they say it is just coincidence and they are not flexing muscle....

So Monty with your logic anyone that is taken against their will, is what a guest????

-edit

Captives on TV
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17827481/

Ok the British soldiers trespassed...The Iranian government defy the world with its nuclear intentions...I say they wanna play like that, well use your imagination.....