Topic: Taiwan and the Pacific Rim Powerplay 2

Peter Pan · February 16th, 2005

OK we have understood the rationale of China and Taiwan.

May we move ahead?

What is the powerplay with the rest and China.

Lets first finish with the Chinese aspect and then check how the other player fall in place.

OK?

Thanks.

03USMC · February 16th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

PLEASE tell me that somebody didn't just bring up Taiwan again!!!

For those that hadn't noticed, bringing up Taiwan works like this:

(As in MASSIVE FLAME WAR)

A man of great insight

Whispering Death · February 16th, 2005

Taiwan is usually an emotional subect when you've got Chinese in the forum... and when the Chinese get emotional about something it almost always provokes the Americans to counter ending is a massive sausagefest.

godofthunder9010 · February 16th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexybeast

lol...that is because ppl dont know much about taiwan...and they often spit out ilogical things that just piss others off.....like "china invades taiwan because taiwan is democractic"...who cares if it is democratic.....it is just so insecure for china, just like letting cuba has soviets' missile on it..can americans sleep well??

The reason that Taiwan is an instant flamewar is because China and its people have an absolutely rigidlyclosed mind on the matter. "That island is ours!! Defy us and we will attack anyone and everyone in the world over it!! If we cannot invade it for whatever reason, we will nuke it into oblivion."

Honestly, how do you have a discussion about something if one side only has one possible viewpoint with absolutely no ability for having an open mind. Why do I say that? Because nobody speaking for China is willing to even consider the theory that Taiwan might be better off being independent or that it already truly is independent.

It is so completely pointless, that the sooner this thread is locked, the better.

gingerbeard · February 16th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03USMC

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingerbeard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pan

During the GOP in Philadelphia in August 2000, it was stated:

Our policy is based on the principle that there must be no use of force by China against Taiwan. We deny the right of Beijing to impose its rule on the free Taiwanese people. All issues regarding Taiwan's future must be resolved peacefully and must be agreeable to the people of Taiwan. If China violates these principles and attacks Taiwan, then the United States will respond appropriately in accordance with the Taiwan Relations Act. America will help Taiwan defend itself.

This does not per se show any aggressive intent of the US towards China. It only states that the imbroglio be resolved peacefully and mutually agreed to.

Notwithstanding, given the GOP statement, the North Korean Standoff, the Japanese stand on being more militarist, the dispute on the Paracel Islands, Islamic fundamentalism rising in Indonesia and Thailand and the fact that the oil to Vhina has to pass thorugh the Malacca Strats, what do you think would be the strategic scenario in the Pacific Rim? In other words, what would be the interest of the littoral states, the US, China and other regional players in this region to uphold and further their national interests.

Right, now as u said before, do u honeslty believe is for the human rights of the people while it invade iraq? US tend to say its for human rights but then its for national interest.

US know china cannot concentrate fully to develop its foreign relations with other countries, as i mention before, US like to attack china with human rights issue, u got to know in china's style of gov, u cannot have full human rights.

attack china with human rights can link witht eh history china has done, therefore proves much more effective, since china is not invading or not playing anything that will cause critism, but the only reason that could critise china most effectively is taiwan.

another point, why would US want a stronger china? if taiwan unite, US know china would be much stronger. china in the future can rival US. US would want to do anything to keep china down. each countries' national interest is to be more powerful than another nation, with all the means it to stop it.

the statement is already flawed, take alook at this: "All issues regarding Taiwan's future must be resolved peacefully and must be agreeable to the people of Taiwan. If China violates these principles and attacks Taiwan, then the United States will respond appropriately in accordance with the Taiwan Relations Act. America will help Taiwan defend itself."

the point is, things cannot be resolved peacefully if US encourage taiwan to declare independance, then US "expects" to encourage china to deal peacefully, if china said not to invade if taiwan goes inderpendant, do u think taiwan wouldnt be an independent country now? everyone even US knows that. then US goes and stir it up (which will cause voilence) then blame china to deal peacefully, but if china do so, that means china will lose this terriorty, clever US playing. this statement shows US wanted to use force against china. making an excuse for it to rightfully declare war. or perhaps wanted to test if china would have the guts to invade taiwan while US is threatening china, to see if china would turn down due to US or not.

The way I read it. It says that Taiwan should choose it's own destiny. And force used by the Peoples Republic would be met as per outlined in the Taiwan realtions Act.

To me that means if Taiwan declares it's indepence which it has every right to do if thats what its people want. And the peoples republic attacks. Then the US is bound by the act/treaty to assist it's Allie. I don't see that as a threat. More of a statement of where the US stands on the issue.

that's funny, u do know taiwan is actually chinese origin? and it was chinese territory since 1400s? chinese settlers inhabited the island.

its like, Texas have more right to be mexico than america, i am sure if texas calim to be mexico, i think america would do the same too.

honestly, u always think other ppl are irrational when ppl dun think it in the american way.

if US want to impose a standard to other ppl, they got ot do it themselves too. ask china to give up tibet? give up texas. Uk should give up northan ireland, scotland and wales too. right, then americans should go back to their european origin and hand trheland back to the red indians.

point is, taiwan would not be better off in its own, its foregn relations are only relying on US and Japan, also china will emarge to be the world's economical and technological power soon. also a country is trying to keep its province together, not to let them go independent just becase they might be better off. somehow westerners dun understand, china control vast amount of land, if taiwan is allow to go independent, other provinces like inner mongolia, tibet etc... would think they would even have more privilage to spearate, since even taiwan is the Han chinese (main group of chinese) are allow to separate, this would encourage other provinces. u got to know,t he countries' main aim is stablilty, a taiwan is a great challenge for china. if a country cannot maintain its stablilty, how would the world think about the strength of the chinese gov?

US would enourage its ppl about taiwan, by using its media staying china abuses human rights therefore taiwan should go independant, but u do know US dun really care about human rights, why not go into africa where there is plenty of genecide, which saddam wasnt even as harsh as those happened in africa.

some how, alot of western ppl critise ppl about other's attitude, but they do not know u r just doing the same. ppl dun get it is that US has never worked for justice, its national interest, just like any other country.

03USMC · February 17th, 2005

Okay Gingerbread. At the request of the thread starter I'm going to refrain from turning this into a Red China/Taiwan Indepence Pizzing contest. I'm sure however that you are more than capable of doing that on your own.

Sexybeast · February 17th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexybeast

lol...that is because ppl dont know much about taiwan...and they often spit out ilogical things that just piss others off.....like "china invades taiwan because taiwan is democractic"...who cares if it is democratic.....it is just so insecure for china, just like letting cuba has soviets' missile on it..can americans sleep well??

The reason that Taiwan is an instant flamewar is because China and its people have an absolutely rigidlyclosed mind on the matter. "That island is ours!! Defy us and we will attack anyone and everyone in the world over it!! If we cannot invade it for whatever reason, we will nuke it into oblivion."

Honestly, how do you have a discussion about something if one side only has one possible viewpoint with absolutely no ability for having an open mind. Why do I say that? Because nobody speaking for China is willing to even consider the theory that Taiwan might be better off being independent or that it already truly is independent.

It is so completely pointless, that the sooner this thread is locked, the better.

how about we discussing in favor of terriost attack on U.S?
than u ppl will go nuts....

the problem is that taiwan issue has nothing to debate because it is just too damn unchangeable, and that island is too damn important to China (not because of its stinky money, but its strategic positioin in eastern asia, think about it!)

MadeInChina · February 17th, 2005

ok, i dont really care what you people say around here anymore, to further complicate things is something deep and like an unending hole - confucious

OK, FOR ALL THOSE PRO-TAIWANESE PPL, HERES THE FACTS:

US DOES NOT GIVE A DAM ABOUT TAIWAN, ITS PEOPLE, OR IF ITS DEMOCRACY OR NOT, IT DOES NOT CARE

US JUST WANTS A STRATEGIC LANDING IN ASIA CLOSE TO CHINA

US FEELS TAIWAN IS US TERRITORY AND THEREBY DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO TOUCH IT

ANYONE CARE ABOUT PPL IN TAIWAN, NOT REALLY, HUMAN RIGHTS AND STUFF.. YA, IT BECOMES IGNORED WHEN STRATEGICALLY SPEAKING

countries who support taiwan are either wanting money or wanted influence ove rit

forget about all those we hav ediscussed

taiwan was and is still is chinese territory, historically it has been proven, who has a better right to take taiwan????

NO COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT to taiwan because simply it is called invasion by countries other tahn china, by china it is unification

those proamericans are also ppl who doesnt give a dam aobut taiwan but only that it is a stregetic landing for us, am i right????

Sexybeast · February 17th, 2005

U.S promised the same to south vietnam......but later abandoned them to north vietnamese...

i hope taiwan don't get the same result..

Peter Pan · February 17th, 2005

To our Chinesse friends.

Just keep to the reasons as to why Taiwan is strategically important to China and should any other nation (not only the US please) shows interest, how will it impinge on teh Chinese geopolitical interests.

Then move on to other areas with these two issues in view.

Let's not get into a 'war' here in an otherwise peaceful Board.

it really doesn't matter who abandoned who and in the event it matters, do elaborate on the military and political aspects and not leave it hanging without rationale.

February 17th, 2005	Post 18
MadeInChina Primus Pilus	ok, i dont really care what you people say around here anymore, to further complicate things is something deep and like an unending hole - confucious OK, FOR ALL THOSE PRO-TAIWANESE PPL, HERES THE FACTS: US DOES NOT GIVE A DAM ABOUT TAIWAN, ITS PEOPLE, OR IF ITS DEMOCRACY OR NOT, IT DOES NOT CARE US JUST WANTS A STRATEGIC LANDING IN ASIA CLOSE TO CHINA US FEELS TAIWAN IS US TERRITORY AND THEREBY DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO TOUCH IT ANYONE CARE ABOUT PPL IN TAIWAN, NOT REALLY, HUMAN RIGHTS AND STUFF.. YA, IT BECOMES IGNORED WHEN STRATEGICALLY SPEAKING countries who support taiwan are either wanting money or wanted influence ove rit forget about all those we hav ediscussed taiwan was and is still is chinese territory, historically it has been proven, who has a better right to take taiwan???? NO COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT to taiwan because simply it is called invasion by countries other tahn china, by china it is unification those proamericans are also ppl who doesnt give a dam aobut taiwan but only that it is a stregetic landing for us, am i right???? __________________ A signature is a little text that can be added at the bottom of the posts you make. It\'s limited to 300 characters (size 7 to 12) on 5 line(s) and 1 image(s) with none larger than 100x500 pixels and for a maximum of 20Kb. In your text, no more than 100 characters without space too.

February 16th, 2005	Post 11
Peter Pan Optio	OK we have understood the rationale of China and Taiwan. May we move ahead? What is the powerplay with the rest and China. Lets first finish with the Chinese aspect and then check how the other player fall in place. OK? Thanks.

February 16th, 2005	Post 13
Whispering Death Tribuni Angusticlavii Gear	Taiwan is usually an emotional subect when you've got Chinese in the forum... and when the Chinese get emotional about something it almost always provokes the Americans to counter ending is a massive sausagefest.

February 17th, 2005	Post 16
03USMC Milforum Moderator Gear	Okay Gingerbread. At the request of the thread starter I'm going to refrain from turning this into a Red China/Taiwan Indepence Pizzing contest. I'm sure however that you are more than capable of doing that on your own.

February 17th, 2005	Post 19
Sexybeast Banned	U.S promised the same to south vietnam......but later abandoned them to north vietnamese... i hope taiwan don't get the same result..

February 17th, 2005	Post 20
Peter Pan Optio	To our Chinesse friends. Just keep to the reasons as to why Taiwan is strategically important to China and should any other nation (not only the US please) shows interest, how will it impinge on teh Chinese geopolitical interests. Then move on to other areas with these two issues in view. Let's not get into a 'war' here in an otherwise peaceful Board. it really doesn't matter who abandoned who and in the event it matters, do elaborate on the military and political aspects and not leave it hanging without rationale.