Originally Posted by r.fox

yes i know that the israelis soldiers did kill civilians, most of the time without provocation. but remember that it would have been worse for the jews in arab states. even before Israel was created. at least now the jews have somewhere to go. in any one of the Arab-Israel wars the Israelis should have been beaten. but they weren`t. what would have happened to the Israeli civilians if Israel had lost?

The Jews have always had places to go. My Great Grandparents family being a perfect example of that. They went to Palestine in 1852 and lived in peace with their Palestinian neighbours, but once the Zionists started arriving in the 1880 - 90s and started making trouble they very wisely left and came to Australia.

The Zionists mistake was in demanding a land that was already claimed by a people who had lived and worked there uninterrupted for millennia.

What do you think would happen if I were to go back to England and just take over the lands of my forefathers, beating and murdering those who resisted me?

Originally Posted by senojekips

The Jews have always had places to go. My Great Grandparents family being a perfect example of that. They went to Palestine in 1852 and lived in peace with their Palestinian neighbours, but once the Zionists started arriving in the 1880 - 90s and started making trouble they very wisely left and came to Australia.

So a Jew is allowed to go to any part in the world except Palestine? If he goes to Palestine and buys a property from a Palestinian he is stealing the land. If he goes to Australia and he buys a property from an Australian it is not stealing the land? Where's the logic of that!

If you want to know who "owns" the land in Palestine you must go to the land register bureau. In the 19th century the Ottoman Turks registered all the property owners and all selling and buying was kept on paper. As did the following rulers. Your notion on "owning the land" is wrong.

The Zionists mistake was in demanding a land that was already claimed by a people who had lived and worked there uninterrupted for millennia.

The Zionists did not demand the land, they bought or rented it. That's legal. If a Palestinian claims the land is his, he must go to the land register bureau and ask for a copy of his land ownership. It is that simple.

What do you think would happen if I were to go back to England and just take over the lands of my forefathers, beating and murdering those who resisted me?

When you go back to England you first check with the land register bureau who now owns that property. Then you go to him and buy it. If you then bought it and he attacks you claiming it is his property for generations then you are allowed to defend yourself. If he dies while attacking you, you were in a state of self defence and not guilty of murder.

Wake up! We are living in the 21st century!

Originally Posted by VDKMS

So a Jew is allowed to go to any part in the world except Palestine?

Of course he can go anywhere he likes, including Palestine,.......... provided he has a current visa issued in the name of that country, the same as anyone else. There's a vast difference between "going", and "invading".

Your utter stupidity seems to be peaking, have you been practicing elsewhere?

Originally Posted by senojekips

Of course he can go anywhere he likes, including Palestine,.......... provided he has a current visa issued in the name of that country, the same as anyone else. There's a vast difference between "going", and "invading".

Your utter stupidity seems to be peaking, have you been practicing elsewhere?

I know we have our differences, and I am not trying to stab at those.

But I am wondering about your stance on how the U.S. in your opinion can vastly change it's foreign policy to improve the situation of Palestine greatly.

This is a honset question , I have read your viewpoints throughout the thread and am wondering how you think Israel's big brother may be able to influence them to take off the jackboots.

Yo,

Originally Posted by Yossarian

I know we have our differences, and I am not trying to stab at those.

But I am wondering about your stance on how the U.S. in your opinion can vastly change it's foreign policy to improve the situation of Palestine greatly.

This is a honset question , I have read your viewpoints throughout the thread and am wondering how you think Israel's big brother may be able to influence them to take off the jackboots.

Yo,

Well,... The first thing you would need to do is to stop fooling yourself the you are Israel's big brother, in actual fact, regardless of your disparate size and military and economic power, you are for the want of a better term, "their bitch". Stop perpetrating the myth to the US taxpayers, that Israel is your ally, and that they have US interests at heart.

Then perhaps a policy that applies the same pressures on the Israelis that it does on other rogue countries. I think you'd be surprised to see what it would do to minimise global Islamic terror.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Well,... The first thing you would need to do is to stop fooling yourself the you are Israel's big brother, in actual fact, regardless of your disparate size and military and economic power, you are for the want of a better term, "their bitch". Stop perpetrating the myth to the US taxpayers, that Israel is your ally, and that they have US interests at heart.

Then perhaps a policy that applies the same pressures on the Israelis that it does on other rogue countries. I think you'd be surprised to see what it would do to minimise global Islamic terror.

We have our differences, I know, we may have different ideas, let leave that out for a moement.

But on this one topic, I agree, you and I share the same logic here.

I am deeply disturbed at the un healthy relation the U.S. is willing to partake for Israel, a relation that spawned deep anti American hatred the world over and threatens our security, and may even bring us into a regional nuclear conflict at this pace.

For the sake of my nation's security I don't see why we do little but slap Israel on the wrists at any major human rights violations, or ignore the Palestine issue so blatantly.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

We have our differences, I know, we may have different ideas, let leave that out for a moement.

But on this one topic, I agree, you and I share the same logic here.

I am deeply disturbed at the un healthy relation the U.S. is willing to partake for Israel, a relation that spawned deep anti American hatred the world over and threatens our security, and may even bring us into a regional nuclear conflict at this pace.

For the sake of my nation's security I don't see why we do little but slap Israel on the wrists at any major human rights violations, or ignore the Palestine issue so blatantly.

It appears that you have grasped the most basic and probably the most important fact of this debate. So long as the US is so undeniably biased and pro Israel, the world will continue to spiral down into the depths of Global Islamic Terrorism.

Just think of the ways it has already affected your life, and that of virtually every man woman and child in the free world, particularly among those countries that support this huge miscarriage of justice,.... not to mention the economic and more importantly, human cost. Just do a quick mental tally, and try to imagine how this has affected tens of thousands of your own citizens who have suffer the loss and maiming of family members, and how the money that has been wasted could have been used to improve the lives of US taxpayers.

Zionists would have us all believe that they have a right to a "homeland", there is no logic or precedent to support this in modern times, and even less to support it in the land that has been occupied by others for millennia. The closest thing would be the Nazi push for Lebensraum, and we all know how that ended.

As for the ways that Israel manipulates others, just watch this,... and note that many of the commentators are Jews. Watch and learn how they seek to silence legitimate criticism by attempting to blur the lines between Judaism and Zionism.

Manipulation of the World's Media

One of the most telling things in this debate is the huge numbers of private Jews and Jewish organisations who are willing to stand up and be counted in defence of the Palestians. I doubt that anything similar can be said for Palestinians or Muslims who argue in favour of Israel, with perhaps the noted exception of a few Palestinians who live in Israel, and we all know why they do this,... They don't want to be evicted from their properties.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Of course he can go anywhere he likes, including Palestine,.......... provided he has a current visa issued in the name of that country, the same as anyone else. There's a vast difference between "going", and "invading".

Your utter stupidity seems to be peaking, have you been practicing elsewhere?

That's what happenend. They came to the Ottoman Empire and settled in the region of Palestine. It was a legal immigration. After the abolition of that country the region of Palestine was ruled by the British with an international mandate. They decided that all citizens living in that region became Palestinians. Then the international community agreed to split up te former Ottoman Empire. Many new countries were found. One of them was Israel (the Arab Palestinians refused theirs) and all citizens within the borders of Israel became Israelis.

These are all facts, and it is not because you don't like it that they are invalid.

The abolition of Israel will solve nothing. On the contrary, islamic terrorists will feel emboldened by "their" victory over Israel and the US. They will start to stir trouble in the other countries that once were part of muslim countries. Spain, Balkans.

People who still believe that terrorism is because of Israel don't know nothing about the history of Islam. They are waging war for 1400 years now and you are claiming it is because of Israel? Terrorism will stop after they accomplish their global Islamic Caliphate.

Off course you can pretend it is about Israel and the Palestinians and ignore all the facts.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

That's what happenend. They came to the Ottoman Empire and settled in the region of Palestine. It was a legal immigration.

Yeah,... we know how "legal" it was. It was because of the Brits trying to prevent these illegal immigrants that Jewish terrorists bombed the King David Hotel killing 91 people.

It would appear that your "facts" leave a lot to be desired, or are you like other Zionists merely alluding to "Zionist facts" (Lies), which bear no resemblance to those of the rest of the world.

In case you are not aware, it contravenes forum rules to post two or more posts in succession.