Originally Posted by hamidreza

The most important thing is that Israeli accept the land doesn't belong to them and it's Palestinian's land. If they accept this the other problems will be solved easily. The number of Jews in the Israel is about 5 million people. the world is large enough to find a place for them. we can find a lot of solution for this.

You completely ignored the post above you which explain the problems with this line of thinking. This isn't a simple case like you and Seno like to deem it.

Who is going to foot the bill? Who is going to force the Israelis off the land if they do not want to go? Are you going to tell the Israelis to go back to the countries that exiled and persecuted them? What if these countries refuse? Don't be rediculous. There is a reason why they mass migrated to Israel.

Not all the time can things be reversed and time is the ultimate healer. 2 state solution with defined borders and a demilitarized Palestinian state. As for the refugee problem, I am sure other countries are willing to help out in sharing the burden. Bush was willing to accept 100,000 Palestinian refugees as U.S citizens if they agreed with the deal.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Unfortantly the simple ability for Israelies to pack up and go back, with so many people so embedded there isn't that feasible.

Did you stop even for a second to think that each of them moved to Israel easily enough.....

Originally Posted by senojekips

Did you stop even for a second to think that each of them moved to Israel easily enough.....

yes many of them moved away from europe after ww2. they didnt want to be anywhere near the place. also the israel believes that the Palestinians have a country of there own. called jordan. while this view might be flawed, at least they have one, whereas, most of the arabic states didnt even reconise the country of Israel untill they got their but kicked form the current boarders of israel almost back to their own capitials during the 6 day, and the Yom kippur/Ramadam wars.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Did you stop even for a second to think that each of them moved to Israel easily enough.....

Or was forced there, what about the one's born there? I don't like what Israel is doing there as much as you do, but just ejecting a huge populace doesn't solve anything.

Think of all the other places of asylum who will have to face these challenges? Anyone want to volunteer? I believe once self interest takes over for the host countries the mentality of what to do with the Israelies would change right quickly.

This has never been done with merit in our history, I don't see it changing now.


Also imagine how stunted or different our civilization would be today if every time a soceity took over another's territory they simpley pulled back on moral grounds, No empire's would have been forged, and you and I would not have enjoyed the lives we live today if everybody in this world of ours colored within the lines throughout the ages.

I am not defending Israel, I am just saying, based off past experiances of our species what you are considering does not sit well with human habit and behaviour paterns which has in the past leaked into and will continue to leak into any agreement in this region of the world.

You can label this injustice, or immorality all day but when it comes down to it if you ask me it's just people being people, in that respect I am not surprised the situation is as it is.

Maybe one day this fallacy in our race will be over come and we can all hope to aspire to greater things as beings on this Earth.

Originally Posted by:RayManKiller3
You completely ignored the post above you which explain the problems with this line of thinking. This isn't a simple case like you and Seno like to deem it.

Who is going to foot the bill? Who is going to force the Israelis off the land if they do not want to go? Are you going to tell the Israelis to go back to the countries that exiled and persecuted them? What if these countries refuse? Don't be rediculous. There is a reason why they mass migrated to Israel.

Not all the time can things be reversed and time is the ultimate healer. 2 state solution with defined borders and a demilitarized Palestinian state. As for the refugee problem, I am sure other countries are willing to help out in sharing the burden. Bush was willing to accept 100,000 Palestinian refugees as U.S citizens if they agreed with the deal.

It is simple like drinking a glass of water
The US accepts thousands people as immigrants every year. In some years this number is about 1 million people. Canada, Australia, New Zealand and some Europe country do in the same way. Why they shouldn’t accept Israeli as immigrant? Didn’t European do crime with Jews in WWII and aren’t they Indebted to them?
These 5 million people can be distributed in these countries during for example 10 years without any problem. They even can give a small part of their land to them to establish their country. The Israel area is about 0.2% of the whole US area. What will happen if you give 0.2% of your land to them? If you aren’t agree how do you expect that the Palestinian give more than 90% of their land to Israeli?
About the cost I think there are a lot of countries that can help Israeli to leave Palestine. The European can help as the WWII compensation. The US can help too. They give Israel several billion dollars every day as grant. Some Arab rich stupid countries can help. For example Qatar and Saudi Arabia who are giving salary and weapon to Syria’s Rebels now and help Israel and the US in this way!!!
And about if the Israeli want or don’t want, if they accept that they or their fathers or their grandfathers occupy the land that is not belonged to them, they should do agree to leave it.
And is the time ultimate healer? No. How was the relation between Israel and Iran 40 years ago and how is it now? How was the relation between Israel and Egypt 2 years a go and how it will be 2 years later? Israel in the ME is like a rotten tooth in the mouth. You can’t suffer its pain. You should pull it out.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Or was forced there, what about the one's born there? I don't like what Israel is doing there as much as you do, but just ejecting a huge populace doesn't solve anything.

Are you trying to tell me that the current situation is solving something, or that confirming that Israel's theft of Palestinian land is legitimate will help the situation?

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Think of all the other places of asylum who will have to face these challenges? Anyone want to volunteer? I believe once self interest takes over for the host countries the mentality of what to do with the Israelies would change right quickly.

You will have to explain what you mean here as I have no idea what you are trying to say, and I can see no connection whatsoever to our discussion

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Also imagine how stunted or different our civilization would be today if every time a soceity took over another's territory they simpley pulled back on moral grounds, No empire's would have been forged, and you and I would not have enjoyed the lives we live today if everybody in this would of ours colored within the lines throughout the ages.

You are living in the past. In the times you are referring to there were no laws against this type of behaviour. In fact it was uncivilised behaviour such as you quote, that bought these present laws into being. It's a process called civilisation,... and it's supposed to move forwards, not stand still or go backwards such as you would have it.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

I am not defending Israel, I am just saying, based off past experiances of our species what you are considering does not sit well with human habit and behaviour paterns which has in the past leaked into and will continue to leak into any agreement in this region of the world.

Once again you are talking about behaviour patterns that are long outdated and now illegal.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

You can label this injustice, or immorality all day but when it comes down to it if you ask me it's just people being people, in that respect I am not surprised the situation is as it is.

Well if you wish to condone or ignore these injustices just because you think that they are just too hard to correct, you will have to learn to love a world where global terrorism is going to be the order of the day.

I think you'll find that your choice going to be a whole lot worse for you, your children and grandchildren, than the short term discomfort of correcting the wrongs of the past now.

Originally Posted by r.fox

yes many of them moved away from europe after ww2. they didnt want to be anywhere near the place. also the israel believes that the Palestinians have a country of there own. called jordan. .

Did you ever stop to think that the Palestinian people who want their country back, never actually lived in the area now known as Jordan, they lived on the land now occupied by Israel.

So instead of having one lot of people p!ssed off about foreigners invading their country, you think that we're going to improve the situation by dragging the Jordanians into it and having a second fight on our hands?

It was stupidity such as this, that started this whole shitefite.

Originally Posted by hamidreza

And is the time ultimate healer? No. How was the relation between Israel and Iran 40 years ago and how is it now? How was the relation between Israel and Egypt 2 years a go and how will be 2 years later? Israel in the ME is like a rotten tooth in the mouth. You can’t suffer its pain. You should pull it out.

I see we are getting no where on this. It seems you do not understand what I meant when I said "time is the ultimate healer". It do not mean healing will happen quickly.

I told you I don't recognize Israel as illegal and the fact it is a soveriegn state that is recognized by most of the international community means we can not do what you suggest legally anyways.

I find your last two sentences quite funny... That is what many westerners would say about the Arabic controlled countries in the M.E. I don't agree with such statements.

Remembering the past to avoid similar issues in the future is great, however, using the past to solve a problem do not always work out.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Well if you wish to condone or ignore these injustices just because you think that they are just too hard to correct, you will have to learn to love a world where global terrorism is going to be the order of the day.

I think you'll find that your choice going to be a whole lot worse for you, your children and grandchildren, than the short term discomfort of correcting the wrongs of the past now.

Would you stop with your fear mongering? I highly doubt global terrorism will end if we appease the Arabs on the situation with Israel. You seem to lack research on many of the Arab terrorist organizations and think Israel is the main and only goal of these organizations. This is false, Seno and even if appeasing the Arabs would end terrorism, I rather die fighting such cowardly tactics than living in fear and bowing to it.

There is a really simple (but long term) way to end this mess and that is education and lifting the standards of these countries. Once this occurs, terrorism will lower as well. We can just up security (which the world is already adapting to) to counter terrorism.

You have much more chance dying other ways than in a terror attack anyways.

While religion can be great, too much of it can be dangerous. Terrorism occured long before Israel was here anyways, the only difference is that they are able to spread it world wide via internet and fast travel.

Originally Posted by RayManKiller3

You have much more chance dying other ways than in a terror attack anyways.

Now we can see the type of "thinking" that the rest of the (sane) human race is up against. No wonder we are so fcuked up at the moment.

While much of the free world sacrifices the lives of their youngest and most valuable young adults, not to mention trillions of dollars spent trying to combat global terrorism, "Brains Trust" here, thinks that terrorism is not a great problem.

For once I'm actually lost for words. Well, at least I'm lost for words that will not get me banned for life. This idiot is a total waste of space in any sane society, to call him an idiot could be honestly judged as obscenely unfair to the world's worst idiots.

But I suppose I'm nearly as bad in some ways, I keep answering him,... I've gotta do something about that. What is it they say? "Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level than beat you with their experience"?