I really thought you were more intelligent then that Monty, but I guess I should have expected such a silly response from you.

How odd you didn't refute any of my post, maybe its because you know you can't so you have to revert to insults again. Remember your own post?

"3. The following are not accepted in posts, but not limited to; Flaming, Baiting, Name Calling, Country Bashing, Spamming, Hate or Racism."

Now stop being a childish silly Billy or you'll go to bed with no supper.

Why is this in the Collecting & Reenactment section?

Originally Posted by viper2007

This is my take on this issue. What I see is two sides of this...

Side 1
Iran- this is one country with a long history and WAS a superpower in ancient times. Unfortunately, some people tends to forget that that was in the past... Iran has long been known to proclaim many things but thats what it does- proclaim. Yup, it does produce all those things that it claim, like planes and ships and vehicles, but if you look closely, those are old technologies rehashed. They clam to have made improvements, but that is what they claimed, and it remains as that. To add further to the complication, they have these theologians who thinks that by saying verses from the Holy Book, things will be done according to their desire...

Side Two
West (I will focus on the US for this)- Many people seems to have the idea that becasue Americans are chaotic in their politics, therefore they lack willpower to carry out military activities against their adversaries. Many people like to quote Vietnam War as a failure on the American military- I will tell you now, they did not lose that war from a military standpoint. They did what they had to do, and they did exactly that. The first Gulf war showed what they really can do, and I suspect that is only a portion of what they are really capable of.

Hamid, there is an old saying- there is more than one way to skin a cat. Believe me, that saying is indeed true. You can take down an advesary in many ways you can imagine- the question is simple- what are you prepared to do to achieve that?

In today's concept of defence, the static defence is no longer a viable option. As the Americans would say, you can run, but you can't hide...

I know much better than you our weapons conditions. I know very well that most of our planes, ships, submarines, tanks and other weapons have old technology. I know very well than our space activities and our nuclear technologies are in it first stages.
But I know well we are in our first steps. I know for 34 years we are in sanction condition. I know our military budget is about 15 billion dollar while our population is 75 million and we are faced with a lot of threats. We have learned how to spend our money in these 34 years after revolution. We plan our defensive politics based on our requirements, our abilities and our budget. Not bad reading this text:
http://news.yahoo.com/us-quietly-prepares-naval-clash-iran-strait-hormuz-184223202.html
And we have good progress in our missile technology, radar technology, air defense systems, electronic war system, cyber systems, drone technology and many other things although we are in the beginning but we have found the way. In one statement we have learnt to be bold, have self-confidence and trust to ourselves.
Before Iran revolution, Iran Air force was forth in the world. But what happened after a war with Iraq for our air force. We almost lost our air force. Why? Because our air force was completely depended on to the US counselors and their auxiliary parts. Our air force was forth on paper but in fact it wasn’t even fortieth. It is the thing US wants from others.

But now in sanction condition it is not bad to know we were top of the world in science growth last year. And it is good to know 60% of our students in our universities are female!
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20291-iran-is-top-of-the-world-in-science-growth.html

As I can understand from your posts most of you didn’t hear anything about Iran’s concrete used in Frodo. Yes we may have some other things in our sleeve that you didn’t see coming. If we didn’t have, military attack would be the first choice for US not last one.
Let me tell you another thing. One month ago Kenya canceled one lucrative contract with Iran because of the US threat. Not because of US better contract suggestion or US financial help but because of US threat! Iran’s nuclear activity doesn’t have any effect on Kenya security. I would be so glad if they canceled the contract because of some economic privileges. We have a lot of country who scare from US and don’t dare to defense their right and it is because their people aren't brave. And when we criticize them they say: No it is a wisely decision you can’t understand. They think the God created them to be always obedient in their short time of life. At least live like a man for one time.

Originally Posted by Der Alte

Plans are good to have - the problem is that the enemy rarely follows these plans and it is dangerous to overestimate one's own potential.
You can never be sure of the things you don't know. Your opponent may have something up their sleeve that you didn't see coming.

No battle plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I don't remember who said it first.

All buildings have weak spots, normally the entrance, ventilations etc. Furthermore, there is no earthquake safe buildings; everything the humans have built can be destroyed by nature. Probably we haven't seen all the destruction power this planet can produce.

George; Perhaps its here if somebody wants to collect smart concrete, I don't know

Originally Posted by George

Why is this in the Collecting & Reenactment section?

It was my mistake but I dont know how I move it to another section.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

No battle plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I don't remember who said it first.

"No plan of operations extends with certainty beyond the first encounter with the enemy's main strength" (or "no plan survives contact with the enemy")
Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke

Originally Posted by hamidreza

It was my mistake but I dont know how I move it to another section.

If you go to this link...

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum...estion-box-25/

and make a post saying that you put it in the wrong place with a link to the thread you want moved I am sure a mod will move it where it should go.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

No battle plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I don't remember who said it first.

All buildings have weak spots, normally the entrance, ventilations etc. Furthermore, there is no earthquake safe buildings; everything the humans have built can be destroyed by nature. Probably we haven't seen all the destruction power this planet can produce.

While I personally find it hard to believe there is an object that cant be destroyed I would point out that the same school of thought has existed throughout history, who would have thought 200,000 years ago the rock wasn't going to be all powerful, who would have thought in 1914 that within 25 years armoured monsters would be ruling battlefields or that the Battleship was a thing of the past.

The reality is that new weapons breed new defences which in turn breed new weapons and so on.

So to quote Lao Tzu - There is no greater disaster than to underestimate your enemy.

Originally Posted by MontyB

If you go to this link...

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum...estion-box-25/

and make a post saying that you put it in the wrong place with a link to the thread you want moved I am sure a mod will move it where it should go.



While I personally find it hard to believe there is an object that cant be destroyed I would point out that the same school of thought has existed throughout history, who would have thought 200,000 years ago the rock wasn't going to be all powerful, who would have thought in 1914 that within 25 years armoured monsters would be ruling battlefields or that the Battleship was a thing of the past.

The reality is that new weapons breed new defences which in turn breed new weapons and so on.

So to quote Lao Tzu - There is no greater disaster than to underestimate your enemy.

Exactly , and why you don't want to try and out run who's best at this game right off the start.




Technological advancment of armed conflict throughout history has been developed around breakthroughs in offensive capabilities.

The sword led to plate armor, the firearm broke this , the ballistics vest follows.

The Tank led to the Panzerfaust, the F 4 Phantom to the S 200.

The IED to the up Armor Hummvee and MRAP.

This chain is endless. All defensive systems hail in one way or another to a previously devised threat.

The bomb makes the bunker. Not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Exactly , and why you don't want to try and out run who's best at this game right off the start.

Technological advancment of armed conflict throughout history has been developed around breakthroughs in offensive capabilities.

The sword led to plate armor, the firearm broke this , the ballistics vest follows.

The Tank led to the Panzerfaust, the F 4 Phantom to the S 200.

The IED to the up Armor Hummvee and MRAP.

This chain is endless. All defensive systems hail in one way or another to a previously devised threat.

The bomb makes the bunker. Not the other way around.

If we shared that view the world would never have gone anywhere, it is human nature to look at your neighbour and try and out do him no matter whether it be lawn mowers or bunker busting bombs.

As far as the bomb making the bunker you are right but in every case there is a point where the bunker out does the existing bomb, a good example of this is LeE and Brits insistence on discussing the British WW2 bombs such as the Tallboy but these bombs only became essential once there existing bombs became ineffectual so in that case the bunker made the bomb.

Originally Posted by MontyB

If we shared that view the world would never have gone anywhere, it is human nature to look at your neighbour and try and out do him no matter whether it be lawn mowers or bunker busting bombs.

I never said Iran nor any other power couldn't do it, it will happen, be it years or decades, it will.

Just it is a most foolish folly to let your stride ride out far ahead of your capabilities of the moment when blowing hot air about grand military ambitions in the region at the present.

Originally Posted by MontyB

As far as the bomb making the bunker you are right but in every case there is a point where the bunker out does the existing bomb, a good example of this is LeE and Brits insistence on discussing the British WW2 bombs such as the Tallboy but these bombs only became essential once there existing bombs became ineffectual so in that case the bunker made the bomb.

You stated one link in the evolution of offensive technology over defensive measures.

There will always be cases of defense blowing off offense, and a new offesnive system will be created to nullifiy that defense.

Iran's super hardened nuclear facilities will create the next generation of bunker busting weapons should they choose war as their next political option. If this genre of weapons is not already being researched.

Once it's busted new bunkers will maybe be built thicker or using other protective measures to counter this new threat.

Hell this has even put U.S. goverment bunkers out of commission due to vulnerability back in the 50's and 60's as weapon technology progressed.

This race is demostrated many times by our ancestors.

In battleships this led to torpedo bulges and thicker armor. Followed by using more torpedoes and air planes to over come their protective measures.

For modern firearms there is the ever going struggle to create lighter and more effective protective wear for warfighters around the globe.

The modern Fighter jet created the SAM, and the stealth fighter to evade those SAM's.

The SR 71 for instance, was over come by more advanced SAM's and interceptor fighters. Thus military satelites became common place.

Everywhere you turn in the realm of armed conlfict's assossiated technology you will see these recurring patterns.