Originally Posted by MontyB

Wow that was rather a whiny response still I guess you cant remove a national trait no matter how many years you spend overseas.

What's the matter Monty, don't you like being corrected? Now that certainly shows your national trait. Never mind, keep taking the tablets.

We don't whine, we leave that to the kiwi's. Isn't whining your national sport?

Originally Posted by MontyB

What I would suggest is that you pay close attention to that "Tongue in Cheek" break down and see if you can find another post in this thread it may apply to.

So you can learn what it actually means? I'll see what I can do.

Wow, how many enemy I have!? If you think target the function or the inhabitants of the bunker is a way because you can’t target the structure, so we have a lot of ways to deal with your stealth planes or your other advanced weapons. As well as that we are completely ready for worst conditions and we have suitable plan for any scenario.
Well, as I can understand from your posts you are too confident to your politicians and militaries decisions. So it is better to have a look to their decisions results in ME.
In 2006 Israel-Hezbollah, Israel wanted to destroy Hezbollah military power in one day but what happened? If you want to know, read winograd commission report.
11/9 gave a good excuse to attack to Iraq to have another puppet in the region. WMD excuse was just for demagoguery. Well what was the result?
In Arab spring west lost some of their friends because they couldn’t support them. On the other hand Iran is increasing her influence in the region. For example now we have good plans for Yemen.
They attack to Afghanistan for 11/9 but they couldn’t destroy Al-Qaeda network and I think Al-Qaeda is stronger than before.
Aren’t these examples enough?

Originally Posted by hamidreza

Wow, how many enemy I have!? If you think target the function or the inhabitants of the bunker is a way because you can’t target the structure, so we have a lot of ways to deal with your stealth planes or your other advanced weapons. As well as that we are completely ready for worst conditions and we have suitable plan for any scenario.

Plans are good to have - the problem is that the enemy rarely follows these plans and it is dangerous to overestimate one's own potential.
You can never be sure of the things you don't know. Your opponent may have something up their sleeve that you didn't see coming.

You mean something like this? One error, it's not the biggest ever made. At the Eglin AFB Air Armament Museum there's a 44,000 lb bomb on display.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

What's the matter Monty, don't you like being corrected? Now that certainly shows your national trait. Never mind, keep taking the tablets.

We don't whine, we leave that to the kiwi's. Isn't whining your national sport?

To be corrected would require at least one of two things:
A) That you were superior.
B) That you were right.

Unfortunately in this case you are neither and your attack on the original poster is the one thing in this thread that needs correction.

To back this up compare the two following quotes.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

To be honest guys, this bloke is a moronic pillock, ignore him and he will eventually go away.

3. The following are not accepted in posts, but not limited to; Flaming, Baiting, Name Calling, Country Bashing, Spamming, Hate or Racism

Now since you asked our national sport is rugby union at which we are both world champions and have been ranked number one for 10 of the last 13 years, interestingly enough it is a sport that you guys invented but just don't seem to be any good at.

Thanks for asking.

Originally Posted by Der Alte

Plans are good to have - the problem is that the enemy rarely follows these plans and it is dangerous to overestimate one's own potential.
You can never be sure of the things you don't know. Your opponent may have something up their sleeve that you didn't see coming.

Exactly in this case I would assume the plan to deal with any "indestructible" facilities would be to isolate it initially and then destroy it at a time when it can be focused on.

Originally Posted by George

You mean something like this? One error, it's not the biggest ever made. At the Eglin AFB Air Armament Museum there's a 44,000 lb bomb on display.

But as pointed out weapons are built to deal with the known, it is the unknown that causes the problems you only have to look at the history of warfare to see that one side builds a weapon and the other counters.
The reality is that at this point we don't know what counter measures Iran has come up with who knows maybe they have found a miracle concrete or maybe they haven't.

This is my take on this issue. What I see is two sides of this...

Side 1
Iran- this is one country with a long history and WAS a superpower in ancient times. Unfortunately, some people tends to forget that that was in the past... Iran has long been known to proclaim many things but thats what it does- proclaim. Yup, it does produce all those things that it claim, like planes and ships and vehicles, but if you look closely, those are old technologies rehashed. They clam to have made improvements, but that is what they claimed, and it remains as that. To add further to the complication, they have these theologians who thinks that by saying verses from the Holy Book, things will be done according to their desire...

Side Two
West (I will focus on the US for this)- Many people seems to have the idea that becasue Americans are chaotic in their politics, therefore they lack willpower to carry out military activities against their adversaries. Many people like to quote Vietnam War as a failure on the American military- I will tell you now, they did not lose that war from a military standpoint. They did what they had to do, and they did exactly that. The first Gulf war showed what they really can do, and I suspect that is only a portion of what they are really capable of.

Hamid, there is an old saying- there is more than one way to skin a cat. Believe me, that saying is indeed true. You can take down an advesary in many ways you can imagine- the question is simple- what are you prepared to do to achieve that?

In today's concept of defence, the static defence is no longer a viable option. As the Americans would say, you can run, but you can't hide...

Originally Posted by viper2007

Side 1
Iran- this is one country with a long history and WAS a superpower in ancient times. Unfortunately, some people tends to forget that that was in the past...

One day if the U.S.'s financial burdens overwhelm military spending we to , just like the Soviets, just like the British, just like the Romans will utilize our glory days as a selling point for political agendas. People like to relive good times, from college dropouts to prison inmates. Especially if you don't have a bright future laid out before you.

And we all know how America likes to sell things.

Originally Posted by viper2007

Iran has long been known to proclaim many things but thats what it does- proclaim. Yup, it does produce all those things that it claim, like planes and ships and vehicles, but if you look closely, those are old technologies rehashed.

Politically motivated, and showing off to other Iranian party members, just grabbing straws. Typical Amatuers.

Originally Posted by viper2007

They clam to have made improvements, but that is what they claimed, and it remains as that. To add further to the complication, they have these theologians who thinks that by saying verses from the Holy Book, things will be done according to their desire...

This isn't David Versus Golaith,

This is getting thrown out of a bar in front of your drinking buddies by a huge bouncer.

Originally Posted by viper2007

Side Two
West (I will focus on the US for this)- Many people seems to have the idea that becasue Americans are chaotic in their politics, therefore they lack willpower to carry out military activities against their adversaries. Many people like to quote Vietnam War as a failure on the American military- I will tell you now, they did not lose that war from a military standpoint. They did what they had to do, and they did exactly that. The first Gulf war showed what they really can do, and I suspect that is only a portion of what they are really capable of.

Unfortunatley for one man he unleashed his highly trained and well equipped military to run all over a continent. Then he ran it ragged and bit off a whole lot more than he could handle.

Reason being is that war entails more than the military of any given soceity, especially today.

Buying power in modern war against a uniformed adversary is king, not necessarly having the best stuff, but the money to buy the batteries.

Patience by adversaries is the biggest threat to the U.S., not direct action,

Which Iran seems to have no concept of.

Asymetrical warefare is another volume of another series however.

Originally Posted by viper2007

Hamid, there is an old saying- there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Your saying it wrong, it's pronouced "Der Iz more dan wun way of skinninz a kat"

An you cun take dat to that char bank.

Originally Posted by viper2007

Believe me, that saying is indeed true. You can take down an advesary in many ways you can imagine- the question is simple- what are you prepared to do to achieve that?

Iran is prepared, to try, not to do anything that would achieve their goals but to jump the gun and screw the pooch right out of the gates.

Thats what they are unknowingly shooting at... Once again, Amatuers.

Originally Posted by viper2007

In today's concept of defence, the static defence is no longer a viable option. As the Americans would say, you can run, but you can't hide...

Exactly, they don't have to run, nor hide. Because if they where half sane, or at least trying they would calm down, make more international partners to depend on them for resources.

Gain their support and wait for America's replacement as the world's ecnomic leader.

Once that happens you use your new freindships to help achieve by finacince a new future where Iran is on the road to be the leading player in the Middle East.

If they had the say and what on ecnomic flows in this region than I garuntee you that other players in the region would come to them for economic matters. Which is a statement in itself.

On a larger scale, this is how the U.S. undercut the Soviet Union.

America saw all those Soviet tanks and planes, knew the numbers, and knew that victory would mean the end of civilization.

Administrations from Truman onward went strait to work, because the U.S. knew time was on it's side.

So what did they do? Carefully under cut, and buy out economic channels for their economy and eventually pushed the ecnomically isolated USSR into internal turmoil.

Then almost over night, all those T 72s, and BMPs, and millions of Soviet Soldiers over the wall became irrelevant.

America's "problem" was solved, without firing a single round over the wall.

China seems to be understanding this for it's goals in East Asia.

You'd think Iran would learn about this method sooner or later as well.

Cause America can spend a whole lot, but obviously this can't go on forever.

And obviously force will become a very attractive option when they instead build nuclear facilities and launch submarines in Iran. Which both are A.K.A "military targets". All that is needed afterwards is "justification".

Thank you, Yoss, for making this point a lot clearer...

The thing is, will these people take this as a lesson?

Originally Posted by MontyB

To be corrected would require at least one of two things:
A) That you were superior.
B) That you were right.

Unfortunately in this case you are neither and your attack on the original poster is the one thing in this thread that needs correction.

So you are saying the RAF didn't sink the Tirpitz or destroyed the Bielefeld Viaduct? Then there are the U Boat pens with concrete 23 feet thick that was destroyed. OK Einstein show me where I was wrong. I suggest that you get your history books out and start reading, because quite frankly you are wrong................again. If you wish I can post sites that contain all the above information. Just let me know, I'll be happy to oblige.

Yes I am proud of serving in the RAF, I am very proud of my cap badge. By the way, what cap badge do you have to be proud of?

"My attack" (your words not mine)on hamidreza the man is a trouble maker and needs to be treated as such. However, I did not insult his country OR nationality, neither did I infer that ALL Iranians are moronic pillocks.

Originally Posted by MontyB

To back this up compare the two following quotes.

The following are not accepted in posts, but not limited to; Flaming, Baiting, Name Calling, Country Bashing, Spamming, Hate or Racism.

Ah the pot calling the kettle black.

Just to remind you and I quote

Originally Posted by MontyB

“Wow that was rather a whiny response still I guess you cant remove a national trait no matter how many years you spend overseas.

No country bashing or name calling???? Aren't you implying all Englishmen are whiners as a national trait? Isn't that name calling and country bashing? Are you saying its OK for you to name call and start country bashing? You need to get over yourself and heed your own advice sunbeam.

As for NZ being ranked number one for the last 10 years in Rugby. Who gives a toss? I don't. Yes we invented rugby, we also invented a lot of other sports we are not particularly good at. So what? Do I care, am I heartbroken, will I lose sleep over it? Nope, quite honestly I couldn't care less.

You really don't like being proved wrong and being corrected Monty, isn't that one of your national traits? Just asking, not implying anything of course.

Oh by the way, did you look up what "Tongue in cheek means?"

Keep taking the tablets, I hope you get well soon.

Wait a sec I think there is a jet landing in the back yard...
Nope sorry the whining was you my bad.