Originally Posted by 42RM

Not necessarily with nukes. There are several ways to take out a bunker. The old Soviet Union had a doctrine during the Cold War on how to put NATO command bunkers out of action without the use of nukes.

several ways? I brought one article about our solution against MOB from your media. now you tell me one of your several ways.

Originally Posted by hamidreza

several ways? I brought one article about our solution against MOB from your media. now you tell me one of your several ways.

There are always weak spots, figure out where.

Originally Posted by hamidreza

several ways? I brought one article about our solution against MOB from your media. now you tell me one of your several ways.

If you can´t target the structure, then you target the function or the inhabitants of the bunker.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

While its true at the beginning of RAF raids getting within 5 miles of its target due to lack of night navigation equipment, this was not the fact later on in the war as better and more accurate equipment became available. The RAF managed to sink the Tirpitz and destroyed the Bielefeld viaduct, so your statement that 999 22,000 pounders would be required is absolute nonsense and churlish.

Besides which my statement was tongue in cheek, I should have realised kiwi's don't have any sense of humour or perhaps kiwi's fail to understand what tongue in cheek means. Just in case you don't "Tongue-in-cheek is a phrase used as a figure of speech to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended and it should not be taken at face value." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek

Wow that was rather a whiny response still I guess you cant remove a national trait no matter how many years you spend overseas.

What I would suggest is that you pay close attention to that "Tongue in Cheek" break down and see if you can find another post in this thread it may apply to.

Originally Posted by Der Alte

If you can´t target the structure, then you target the function or the inhabitants of the bunker.

I was told that these things should be looked at as a chain mesh, if you cant break one link you work on the ones that connect to it.

Exactly Monty. Nothing new under the sun.

Yes the RAF were often far off the target in the early days of the war, yet with the bomb in this film they manged to hit the Tirpitz and smash quite a few other targets.
The fuse was in tail fins so the bomb had to enter the ground completely before it was triggered. The idea was to shake the ground like an earthquake and cause the buildings to collapse.

Grand Slam bomb - YouTube

Grand Slam bomb - YouTube

Originally Posted by hamidreza

several ways? I brought one article about our solution against MOB from your media. now you tell me one of your several ways.

Let explain a fact of life to you.

The United States has the largest military reasearch and development establishment in history, fact.

Right now, there are dozens of military contractors who would be watering at the mouth to get a contract to develop a heavy bunker busting device.

Right now there are hundereds of professionals who could formulate and display for deployment such a device or weapon for review before Congress.

Right now there are tens of thousands of highly trained military personel who could be trained and equipped to field such a device.

Now here is another rain check, your bunker during this entire process is immobile, not moving. Intelligence sources from among Iran's many enemies would be prying their eyes towards such and immobile target.

While researchers and develpers know exactly where to look for what this device would be built to overcome.


What you fail to understand is that America is really really good at building death machines.
Really good....

Stuff that's proven, stuff that China' copies, stuff that Russia tries to emulate.

We may have a hard time managing our debt, we may have a hard time keeping our interstates paved.

We may have a hard time on long term diplomacy...

But we excel in every way at building destructive devices, and even more so when we allow ourselves to use them.

One object the size of a telephone pole for instance dropped from thousands of miles up in orbit could have enough destructive energy when impacting the Earth's surface to pentrate very hardened targets...

As time goes by, guidance get's better, capability expands, and gaps in ability will close.

All that's needed now is the savy businessmen of our defense establisment to throw an idea infront of a defense appropriations committee.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Let explain a fact of life to you.

The United States has the largest military reasearch and development establishment history, fact.

Right now, there are dozens of military contractors who would be watering at the mouth to get a contract to develop a heavy bunker busting device.

Right now there are hundereds of professionals who could formulate and display for deployment such a device or weapon for review before Congress.

Right now there are tens of thousands of highly trained military personel who could be trained and equipped to field such a device.

Now is another rain check, your bunker during this entire process is imobile, not moving. Intelligence sources from among Iran's many enemies would be prying their eyes towards such and imobile target.

While researchers and develpers know exactly where to look for what this device would be built to overcome.


What you fail to understand is that America is really really good at building death machines.
Really good....

Stuff that's proven, stuff that China' copies, stuff that Russia tries to emulate.

We may have a hard time managing our debt, we may have a hard time keeping our interstates paved.

We may have a hard time on long term diplomacy...

But we excel in every way at building destructive devices, and even more so when we allow ourselves to use them.

One object the size of a telephone pole for instance dropped from thousands of miles up in orbit could have enough destructive energy when impacting the Earth's surface to pentrate very hardened targets...

As time goes by, guidance get's better, capability expands, and gaps in ability will close.

All that's needed now is the savy businessmen of our defense establisment to throw an idea infront of a defense appropriations committee.

That summed it up in a nut shell...sad as it may be...it's a VERY bad idea to be the enemy of the US presently.

Originally Posted by brinktk

That summed it up in a nut shell...sad as it may be...it's a VERY bad idea to be the enemy of the US presently.

It could also be argued that it is becoming a very bad idea for the US to have so many enemies because as he points out you are struggling to control debt which will invariably mean that having the "largest military reasearch and development establishment history" may not be the case in the future.

I think you have been very lucky up until now that no one has latched on to the idea that the way to defeat the US is not on the battlefield but rather in the financial field because once US debt reaches critical mass no amount of economic growth will cover the cost of that debt.

Lets be honest here a $50 Taliban fighter drops a 0.50c picture of the Golden Gate bridge in a pile of rubble outside Kabul and you spend a couple of million over the next 6 months on security, rinse and repeat until the bill gets out of hand and that is how you win a war against the USA not with bombs and bullets.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Lets be honest here a $50 Taliban fighter drops a 0.50c picture of the Golden Gate bridge in a pile of rubble outside Kabul and you spend a couple of million over the next 6 months on security, rinse and repeat until the bill gets out of hand and that is how you win a war against the USA not with bombs and bullets.

My post was more of the reality of a particular situation, not the long term world climate. One fact has endured since the dawn of recorded history, all Empires either collaspe or dwindle backwards over time. Every single one, this is certain. I think it's not due to any one particular party that this happens, but more or less these types of soceities have life spans and age almost in a very rough sense just like people do. Understand I said very rough sense.

However even if America "collaspes" tommorow, we would quickly prop ourselves up with one hand off the floor with our Arms establishment.

What would be spooky and down right Ironic would be to see the United States using the very same arms export tactics to selling to just about anybody as Russia and Eastern Europe did after the wall came down.

Virtually becoming the type of sinner it once went sought out to bring to "justice", well American Justice.

I am not saying I do not love my country, just trying to take it's pulse and place it into words.

And right now certian portions of American society can be compared to as one English Comedian puts it, "A dying smelly Gorilla taking up all the space on your couch and attempting to murder you everytime you offer it free healthcare".

But this thread idea could be sentinced to another day.

Case in point back on topic, I don't see America's capacity to build and export armaments and military technology diminishing anytime soon, further more I see an incredible change in our already massive established export qaunties should any collaspe or upheaval come.