|October 13th, 2008||#1|
Shotgun Tactics, info
Most instructors concentrate on transition from an empty tube feeder shotgun to your side arm. What I like to do is hot reload a full mag into my Saiga with the idea being that I never go dry until I'm out of magazines.
Going to the pistol I feel puts me into defensive mode having ten rounds in my shotgun makes me offensive in more ways than one. I had this same arguement on another gun board.
I believe a person can transition faster to a pistol than I can reload my Saiga but not by much and if I'm under cover I can really have an advantage over a pistol with a 12 guage.
What do you guys think does the Saiga 12 change the tactical mantality of the shotgunner in a tactical situation?
I have talked with police they don't train to do reloads under fire the transition. When you have a 4 plus 1 shotgun your screwing up from the git go if you ask me .
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night.
The only thing clean on him is his weapon.
|October 13th, 2008||#2|
I'm not sure what you mean by tactical mentality, but I am sure that 10 (or 20) round capacity plus the ability to rapidly swap mags instead of loading a shell at a time is a great advantage. I have seen some folks skilled with speedloaders reload a traditional shotgun as fast as if not faster than you could change mags. Still, the only time I'd take a tube fed shotgun over mag fed is if I needed to switch ammo types quickly.
Do you have any recommendations about what to do to a Saiga to make it a worthy fighting firearm?
"Mankind, when left to themselves, are unfit for their own government." - George Washington
Last edited by major liability; October 13th, 2008 at 04:38..
|October 14th, 2008||#4|
I view the Saiga as a new branch into the tactical shotgun market. Are there some pros over the traditional shotgun? Yes, but the main issue with the Saiga is that it replaces the rifle. The shotgun is not and cannot do what a rifle can.
The Saiga in my view was designed for the 3-gun shooter. In that field the Saiga wins period. For self defense I think that your traditional designs are better. The Saiga's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness.
The Magzines. To make the Saiga effective you need to have additional magazines. You need to carry them. They need to work. Without them you have an expensive single shot or a club.
The traditional shotgun is king in that you don't need a magazine. The magazine is part of the weapon platform. Since the shotgun is the more commonly used and owned firearm across the world, it is easier for a novice shooter to use for self defense.
I'm not against the Saiga. I just don't believe in using one as a self defense shotgun. For me it's the slide action. It's reliable, sturdy, and battle proven. I can carry easily 100 rounds of shotgun ammunition on my hip in dump pouches. I can't carry that many rounds in Saiga Magazines.
If I'm going to carry a detachable magazine fed weapon platform it will either be a rifle or a pistol. If I'm going to carry a shotgun with will either be tube feed slide action or a tube feed semi-auto.
|October 15th, 2008||#5|
Okay you made some good points, I am a big fan of the Saiga, because it is so easy to use. In competition it's gaining a real following in competition circles and also a big following with guys like Gabe Suarez on www.warriortalk.com
Here is what I like about it, first you can train a new guy to take it apart, put it back together master reloads in a very short time.
I agree a shotgun is not a rifle so forget the slugs and use buck shot not saying that I would be opposed to having one mag filled with slugs.
I have known Danial Horner for a long time, he is unbelivable but it takes a lot of tallent and practice to be as good as he is, I don't have the time or energy to be that good, however I have put heat on him and nearly beat him on a speed stage using my S-12 a PK-01 red dot and two Soviet made 8 round mags. There was like 9 targets and you started with 5 in the gun.
Most "Tactical" Shotguns are modified Fudd Guns the Saiga is a weapon of war dressed down for sport. Not an upgraded or not upgraded at all duck Wabbit gun.