About The Serbian Massacre Video Page 5
|January 2nd, 2006||#41|
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I can't find a specific source, but by what I remember of the situation, the Dutch Officer in Charge, begged for support from the UN Command in Serbia. He stated quite clearly that he was out gunned, and would not be able to stop the assault. He was denied any support. The Dutch commander decided to not have his command slaughtered.
I can't get myself to judge these men, I can only offer my empathy for what I am sure they have suffered since that day.
|January 2nd, 2006||#42|
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Regarding Srebrenica you may read the entire report here on NIOD (Nederlands Instituut Voor Oorlogs Documentatie) http://126.96.36.199/srebrenica/ (select table of contents to see the report). Take your time to read it and you will find many interesting facts.
In particular read Part III - The fall of Srebrenica (chapter 4 - section 2: "Dutchbat's mood" contains a review on the morale in Dutchbat and what they were going through).
Per Qualitatem Optimum Robur
Last edited by sunb!; January 2nd, 2006 at 11:04..
|January 5th, 2006||#46|
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How would you exactly define their duty Thomas? And to which extend should they pay the price of fulfilling this order?
Imo opinion you sound like a "bis dem letzten Mann" to me, so I reckon that needless bloodshed is one of the options.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Sir Winston Churchill
|January 7th, 2006||#47|
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Comment from a Green-Horn! info
Green horn of this forum anyway!
First, I would like to say that I lived in Srebrenica for years. I was not on the ground in July of 1995, though. I've got a blog about my time spent in the Srpska Republika, Srebrenica, Bratunac, Kravica and Milici to name but a few small villages. http://johnanderson75.blogspot.com
I voted in the poll that the Dutch bat should have fought. I base this vote solely on the notion of me being able to put myself in the Dutch bat CO's shoes. I for one just couldn't have idly sat by and watched what when on.
With this said, though, I also couldn't lead my mean to their deaths needlessly. If I were the CO on the ground in July of 95, I would have put it to a vote. What you guys might not know is, the Dutch bat was a series of Observation Posts, Hotel, Foxtrot..ect..ect.
Before the initial assault of Srebrenica I believe the Serbs were testing the UN's response to their aggression by attacking these Dutch bat "OPs". The OIC of the respective OPs being attacked radioed for air support and each and every time it was denied or simply wasn't answered due to the fact the leadership of the UN were incompetent.
Many of the Dutch bat soldiers were taken hostage by Gen. Mladic and transported to Bratunac, a small village only about eight kilometers from Srebrenica. They were held there and used as pawns. As Gen Mladic sent messages to the UN leadership that if air strikes were used against the Serbs the Dutch bat soldiers held captive would be executed.
What most don't know is, there was a British FAC commando, Forward Air Controller on the ground around Srebrenica with special equipment capable of "painting" Serb targets for UN fighter planes called in to provide close air-support.
This is actually a log story so I'll end it here but, if you'd like to read more about it, visit my blog and read a little - I've got other stuff there too so if you don't find what you're looking for have a little patience.
Also, you can buy the book, "Endgame" by David Rohde. You can pick this book up from Amazon for as little a few dollars, used. This is one of the best books written about Srebrenica to date.
Something I would like to add is, I read most of this thread. I would like to clear something up; the Serbs in question here did not murder these civilians out of religion. In order for one to understand this you must know the history between the Serbs and Bosniaks. If you don't know the history, then it's not even worth saying here at this time.
For me, if I were the OIC of the Dutch bat on the ground in Srebrenica in July of 1995 I would have put weather we fight or idly stand by to a vote. I would have honored their vote, wrong or right.
|January 7th, 2006||#48|
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wrath1, good post. I suggest you, and any other, read the report on the Srebrenica episode which URL is posted by me in this thread. The section about the mood in Dutchbat is in particular of interest.
It is correct that there were FAC units in the vichinity of Srebrenica but a slow chain of command, uncleared SOPs on when to use Close Air Support and how to use it among many other unfortunate things (such as troops with APCs decided to withdraw from the operation for a period to do religious activities and so on) made this situation even worse for the soldiers on the ground.
|January 7th, 2006||#49|
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All I can say is that our boys did what they could. They were sent there mainly on a humanitarian base. I don't know if you know but we aren't a warring nation and we don't have a great warrior tradition (exceptions not included). The mandate left no space for heavy armour or a solid and strong punch. They had their light weapons and a few mortars, APC's and that's about it. They would have been massacred that is for sure.
If things go really bad we have troops flown in to protect these troops. It may sound funny, but it is a tottally different mind set for the boys flown in.
We learned our lesson from that very black page of our military history. Our commando's have joined the US special forces in Afghanistan and this time it is for actual "hunting". We establish the mandate clearly and make a calculation of the risks. If things are not absolutly clear we don't sent our troops. It was a rude awakening and a very hard lesson taught, but we learned well.... at least in my opinion.
|January 8th, 2006||#50|
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You are right! info
I personally do not blame the individual Dutch bat solidiers on the ground in Srebrenica. I blame the UN and their misinterpretation of the UN mandates set forth to protect the world's first UN declared "safe-haven" or enclave.
All it would have taken I believe to have stopped the Serbs were a few sorties. Yea, there were a few but they either didn't hit their marks or simply were too timid and didn't do any real damage.
I for one, have nothing against the Dutch bat and respect the fu.ck out of those who were there. And my heart goes out to the family of Mr. Raviv van Renseen who was hit by a piece of shrapenl from a grenade thrown by an Bosniak farmer.
Last edited by wrath1; January 8th, 2006 at 05:07.. Reason: Spelling error!