Second World War tank and anti-aircraft gun found in basement

MontyB

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Second World War tank and anti-aircraft gun found hidden in basement of villa in Germany

The tank, among the weapons haul discovered hidden in the cellar of a villa in Kiel, took nine hours to remove.

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A World War Two era 'Panther' battle tank is removed from a residential property in Heikendorf, Germany, Photo: EPA
By Melanie Hall, Berlin

3:31PM BST 03 Jul 2015

German soldiers grappled for nine hours with an unusual task: trying to remove a Second World War tank found in the cellar of a villa.

Almost 20 soldiers struggled to remove the tank from a villa on Thursday in a wealthy suburb of Kiel in northern Germany, after police searching the property discovered the tank, a torpedo, an anti-aircraft gun and other weapons in the cellar on Wednesday.

Police raided the home in the town of Heikendorf under instructions from prosecutors, who suspected that the villa's 78-year-old owner held the weaponry illegally under a law controlling the possession of instruments of war.

The army was called in to try to remove the 1943-vintage Panther tank, and struggled for nine hours to tow it out using two modern recovery tanks designed to haul damaged battle tanks off the field.

The soldiers ended up having to build their own wooden ramp in order to free to tank.

Ulrich Burchardi, an army spokesman, described the difficult task of removing the tank without damaging the house as “precision work”.
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A WWII era flak canon is prepared to be transported The other weapons have also now been confiscated by police.

Prosecutors in Kiel were alerted to the existence of the weapons by the authorities in Berlin, who had previously searched the villa for stolen Nazi art around a month earlier, national newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung reported.
But Peter Gramsch, lawyer for the villa’s owner, claimed that the tank and the anti-aircraft gun could no longer fire their weapons and were therefore not breaking any law.
He told the newspaper there was even a note from the responsible district office from 2005 stating that the tank had lost its weapons capability.
Mr Gramsch now wants to take legal action against the seizure and also for compensation for his client.
“I assume that the tank was damaged in the process,“ he said.
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German Police discovered military equipment from World War II including the Panther tank, weapons and a torpedo in a cellar of a villa

The villa owner, described as leading a secluded life, is now being investigated for breaching the war weapons control act.
The mayor of Heikendorf, Alexander Orth, who was present at the tank's remove, said the discovery came as no surprise, telling the newspaper that the owner "was chugging around in that thing during the snow catastrophe in 1978".
Mr Orth said the man has a "a certain fondness for particular things", adding: "Some people like steam trains, others like tanks.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...d-hidden-in-basement-of-villa-in-Germany.html
 
An interesting problem. Imagine hording those weapons away all these years. They appear in great condition and I'm sure will make great museum pieces.
 
I am somewhat amused about all this. looking for missing art and they found art, different kinds of art, though.

How many Panthers remain today?
 
An interesting problem. Imagine hording those weapons away all these years. They appear in great condition and I'm sure will make great museum pieces.

German law on weapons is generally pretty brutal and could see them destroyed although the "historic" nature of them and their condition more than likely could save them from a scrap heap.

I am somewhat amused about all this. looking for missing art and they found art, different kinds of art, though.

How many Panthers remain today?

Operational Panthers, there are 6 left:
3 x Sd.Kfz. 171 Ausf A models
3 x Sd.Kfz. 171 Ausf G models.
Inoperational but "good" condition as in "might" run again there are about 15.

But yes it is rather amusing especially when the town mayor says he was cruising around in it in 1978.

Here is another image from a BBC story on it:
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The amusing thing is that the vehicle towing the Panther is made more or less by the same company that made the Panther.

Germany: WW2 Panther tank seized from pensioner's cellar


By News from Elsewhere... ...as found by BBC Monitoring
3 July 2015

Slow progress: It took hours for the army to remove the tank from the basement Police in northern Germany have seized a World War Two tank which was being kept in a pensioner's cellar.
The Panther tank was removed from the 78-year-old's house in the town of Heikendorf, along with a variety of other military equipment, including a torpedo and an anti-aircraft gun, Der Tagesspiegel website reports. It wasn't an easy job to get it all out - the army had to be called in with modern-day tanks to haul the Panther from its cellar. It took about 20 soldiers almost nine hours to extract the tank - which was without its tracks - and push it onto a low-loader, the report says. As the surreal scene unfolded, local residents gathered at the end of the driveway to watch.

Prosecutors in the nearby city of Kiel are investigating whether the man's military collection violates Germany's War Weapons Control Act. But his lawyer says the weapons are no longer functional, therefore shouldn't be restricted.

Local prosecutors were tipped off about the cellar's contents by colleagues in Berlin, who searched the home for stolen Nazi art earlier this year.

It seems the tank's presence wasn't much of a secret locally. Several German media reports mention that residents had seen the man driving it around town about 30 years ago. "He was chugging around in it during the snow catastrophe in 1978," Mayor Alexander Orth was quoted as saying. But he later added: "I took this to be the eccentricity of an old man, but it looks like there's more to it than that."

The man had also been keeping an anti-aircraft gun in his basement
 
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I wonder what other 'goodies' are floating around Germany......... must be more items hidden away in private stashes......:tank:
 
I am a little surprised to see the color of the Panther. It looks like it was intended for the desert, but If I am not completely wrong the Panther appeared in 1943 at the battle of Kursk. At that time the war in North Africa was already over and the allied had invaded Sicily and even continued to Italy itself.

I have seen other German vehicles with the same color, but they were earlier versions of vehicles (panzer II and III, some of the jagd vehicles)
 
I am a little surprised to see the color of the Panther. It looks like it was intended for the desert, but If I am not completely wrong the Panther appeared in 1943 at the battle of Kursk. At that time the war in North Africa was already over and the allied had invaded Sicily and even continued to Italy itself.

I have seen other German vehicles with the same color, but they were earlier versions of vehicles (panzer II and III, some of the jagd vehicles)

As far as I can recall all late war Panther G's made by the MAN and Daimler-Benz factories, only between 19th August and 14th September 44 were given a base colour of Dunkelgelb so there is nothing unusual about that scheme it is the correct base coat prior to its "Ambush" camouflage scheme being applied.
 
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Operational Panthers, there are 6 left:
3 x Sd.Kfz. 171 Ausf A models
3 x Sd.Kfz. 171 Ausf G models.
Inoperational but "good" condition as in "might" run again there are about 15.

I was under the impression that only the Panzer V AUSF D which entered service in April 43 and the Panzer V AUSF G which went into production in September 44 were the only models that went into high production.
Unlike the famous tigers the Panthers were built in large numbers with ~ 6000 Panzer V AUSF G being produced by Nazi Germany. They were used in large numbers on the battlefields of the USSR and later in the case of the Panzer V AUSF G the western front as well.
True the Panzer AUSF D did make it's combat debut at Kursk and failed miserably due to teething issues.
 
The Ausf D model was the first to see service followed by the Ausf A and then the Ausf G.
Of the 6-7000 Panthers to enter service roughly 3000 were G models, 2100 A models and 900 D models were produced along with roughly 500 support types (Command and Recovery vehicles) as well as about 400 Jagdpanthers.
 
The Ausf D model was the first to see service followed by the Ausf A and then the Ausf G.
Of the 6-7000 Panthers to enter service roughly 3000 were G models, 2100 A models and 900 D models were produced along with roughly 500 support types (Command and Recovery vehicles) as well as about 400 Jagdpanthers.

Pardon I left out the Panzer V AUSF A. The Panzer V AUSF G resulted from recommendations from troops in the field using the earlier AUSF D and AUSF A versions. Correct the total tally of Panther tanks produced by Nazi Germany was ~ 6000. This is still considerable, considering the quality of the tanks. and that they were produced over a span of less than 2 years. I wouldn't count the ~ 400 Jagdpathers, "which may have been the best tank destroyer of the war" since they are not tanks by definition.
 
Pardon I left out the Panzer V AUSF A. The Panzer V AUSF G resulted from recommendations from troops in the field using the earlier AUSF D and AUSF A versions. Correct the total tally of Panther tanks produced by Nazi Germany was ~ 6000. This is still considerable, considering the quality of the tanks. and that they were produced over a span of less than 2 years. I wouldn't count the ~ 400 Jagdpathers, "which may have been the best tank destroyer of the war" since they are not tanks by definition.

True but they did use the Panther chassis.
 
Probably the best example of this is the use of the PzKpfw III chassis being used for the Sturmgeschütz III.

However the PzKpfw II chassis was used for a number of early Jagdpanzer and SPG designs as well.
 
I am a little surprised to see the color of the Panther. It looks like it was intended for the desert, but If I am not completely wrong the Panther appeared in 1943 at the battle of Kursk. At that time the war in North Africa was already over and the allied had invaded Sicily and even continued to Italy itself.

I have seen other German vehicles with the same color, but they were earlier versions of vehicles (panzer II and III, some of the jagd vehicles)

Could it be some sort of anti rust preservative type of paint?
 
From what i understand they had two base coats, one was the sand yellow you see there and the other was a deep red.

now my guess is that the colour you see there is a modern repaint but that is a standard colour for that vehicle in 1944-45 prior to having its camouflage pattern being applied.
 
Did the Germans use camouflage patterns on their vehicles? They were among the first using camouflage patterned uniforms. The modern Bundeswehr uniform reminds a bit of the camo used during the war

Most pictures from the war are in black and white so it is hard to see colors and patterns.
 
Did the Germans use camouflage patterns on their vehicles? They were among the first using camouflage patterned uniforms. The modern Bundeswehr uniform reminds a bit of the camo used during the war

Most pictures from the war are in black and white so it is hard to see colors and patterns.

I'm not 100% sure but didn't the Germans paint their armoured vehicle white during winter in Russia?
 
I'm not 100% sure but didn't the Germans paint their armoured vehicle white during winter in Russia?

They must have done that. Otherwise their vehicles had been very easily detected from the air. Yellow works pretty good when it comes to the winter, the snow from the air has a yellow kind of color.
 
Did the Germans use camouflage patterns on their vehicles? They were among the first using camouflage patterned uniforms. The modern Bundeswehr uniform reminds a bit of the camo used during the war

Most pictures from the war are in black and white so it is hard to see colors and patterns.
Even the black and white pictures show camouflage patterns.

Panzer-Numbers-825.jpg


Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-680-8282A-06%2C_Budapest%2C_Panzer_VI_%28Tiger_II%2C_K%C3%B6nigstiger%29.jpg


However colour photography was available during ww2...

Captured%2BGerman%2Bpanzer%2Bby%2BAmerican.jpg
 
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