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August 23rd, 2005   #1
Tvoi-Vrag
 

RUSSIAN FIGHTERS SUPERIOR, SAYS PENTAGON info


RUSSIAN FIGHTERS SUPERIOR, SAYS PENTAGON
MOSCOW, RIA Novosti's military analyst Viktor Litovkin

The American military amazed Moscow and the Russian media by saying that Russian-made fighter planes were superior to their American equivalents. How can these flattering revelations be explained?

General Hal M. Hornburg told USA Today that India's Sukhoi Su-30 MKI multi-role fighters have been successful against F-15 C/D Eagle aircraft in mock combat. In fact, the Indians won 90% of the mock combat missions.

USA Today reported: We may not be as far ahead of the rest of the world as we thought we were, said Gen. Hal Hornburg, the chief of the Air Combat Command, which oversees U.S. fighter and bomber wings...The F-15Cs are the Air Force's primary air superiority aircraft...[and] the results of the exercise [were] wake up call.

The Inside the Air Force official newsletter also discussed the "Russian victory," and reported even more details. F-15 C/D Eagle fighters were pitted against not only Su-30 MKI fighters but also MiG-27s, MiG-29s, and even the older MiG-21 Bisons, which also performed well. The fighters not only defeated the F-15s but the French-made Mirage-2000 as well. According to the Washington ProFile Web site, the results of the exercises surprised the American pilots.

Meanwhile, Russian military experts and aircraft designers did not seem surprised by these victories. The Sukhoi general designer, Mikhail Simonov, has repeatedly told RIA Novosti and other news agencies the Su-27 Flanker and the Su-30 MKI, a modified version of the Flanker, which are now in service in the Indian Air Force, were developed in the 1980s in response to the F-15 Eagle. Moreover, Soviet designers had stipulated far superior specifications. Consequently, Russian experts were not particularly surprised that the performance of the fighters matched their specifications.

Why did an American general publicly admit this fact four months after the exercises?

India's Su-30 MKI fighters and F-15 C/D Eagles from Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska, engaged in mock combat exercises in February 2004. However, no one mentioned that India won three of the four exercises at the time.

Russian fighters first defeated their US rivals when Sukhoi and MiG fighters had just started being shown at international aerospace shows in the early 1990s. At that time, several Su-27 fighters, under the command of Maj.-Gen. Alexander Kharchevsky, the head of the Lipetsk center for retraining air force pilots, went to Canada to demonstrate their impressive potential. (President Vladimir Putin flew in a Su-27 to Chechnya.)

Instead of missiles and artillery shells, Russian and American fighter planes used aerial cameras to record their mock air-to-air battles. American fighters were disappointed to learn the results of exercise - their cameras had not captured any Su-27s. The Russians, however, had filmed their rivals' vulnerable points from just about every angle.

Russian pilots owed their impressive success to the Su-27's spectacular performance and its substantial thrust-to-weight ratio. The fighter's unsurpassed performance has already become well known throughout the world because no other fighter (except MiG fighters) can execute such impressive stunts as Pugachev's Cobra and others.

The F-15, the F-16 and the F-18 have wide turning radii. Russian fighters, on the other hand, can turn on a dime by merely switch on their afterburners.

Apart from in Canada, MiG-29 fighters also fought mock air battles with South Africa's Mirage-2000s. Again, the Russia planes defeated their enemies.

Chief designer Arkady Slobodskoi, the supervisor of the MiG-29 program, said, "if our plane is within range of an opponent and has a direct shot, the enemy can be considered destroyed. It only takes 5-6 machine gun bursts."

The United States, which is aware of the impressive combat potential of Russian fighters, had even purchased a squadron of MiG-29s from Moldova after the Soviet Union disintegrated. (That squadron was deployed at an airfield near Chisinau.) Germany, which had obtained a number of MiG-29s after reunification, helped repair the Moldovan fighters. Both Germany and the United States now use these aircraft to train their pilots, so that the pilots can cope with the 7,000 Russian fighters in the world. Britain's Military Balance magazine estimated that India had more than 500 Russian-made fighters. It was therefore not surprising that Indian pilots could defeat their American rivals, despite the U.S. Air Force's intensive combat-training programs.

On the other hand, American pilots have not confronted any serious adversaries for a long time. The U.S. Air Force dominated the skies over Yugoslavia in 1999 and in Iraq in 1991 and 2003. Iraqi planes were grounded during both campaigns. Therefore, mock combat is the only way to amass experience.

The long standing American Air Force mentality prevents its pilots from confronting their Russian counterparts because any possible setback would be detrimental to morale. An American Air Force pilot must be convinced that he can and must defeat the former "theoretical enemy." At the same time, these problems do not exist for mock combat exercises against Indian pilots because any defeats can be explained by inadequate training.

Why did the United States inform the world about its setbacks? Neither Russian, nor U.S. generals like to do this.

The explanation lies on the surface: The U.S. Congress discusses defense spending for the next fiscal year every June and therefore, top American military officials started talking about events in February 2004 now.


http://www.cdi.org/russia/313-9.cfm
 
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August 23rd, 2005   #2
ozmilman
 
Heh, well then, there's another couple billion dollars for the military budget.

Rich.


\"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.\" - Nietsche

\"Just punch \'em, they\'ll understand.\" - Rich
 
August 23rd, 2005   #3
Rabs
 
 
Well considering its from a Russian source, and the Indian-American war-game has been re-hashed on this board many times. The odds were stacked, etc. Ive read forums were these same war-games someone claimed to be on of the F-15pilots and claimed "i was orderd not to pull over 4gs." This is probally bs. The F-15c is an excellent aircraft as is the Mig-29 and Suhkoi series.


 
August 23rd, 2005   #4
vargsriket
 
As far as aircraft performance goes, the Su and MiGs are probably better machines, but what it really comes down to is the pilot and his training.
 
August 23rd, 2005   #5
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabs
Well considering its from a Russian source, and the Indian-American war-game has been re-hashed on this board many times. The odds were stacked, etc. Ive read forums were these same war-games someone claimed to be on of the F-15pilots and claimed "i was orderd not to pull over 4gs." This is probally bs. The F-15c is an excellent aircraft as is the Mig-29 and Suhkoi series.
Rabs

His source is probably right, I read a similar article in an Indian paper as well. Not really surprising, The F-15 is a 30 year aircraft it was only a matter of time before someone came out with something better. I saw a Greek Typhoon and a French Rafeal at the Paris Air Show in June I must say both look like very slick aircraft. As for training thats true, but I think the US has lost some of its overwhelming edge in training. The Europeans have some mighty fine pilots.

The test is a little unfair in this respect. Russian fighters are pure dogfighters, they are designed for Speed, high altitude performance and menueverability. American aircraft are not. American fighter tactics favor electronics and state of the art weapons systems to destroy MiGs in long range standoff attacks before the MiG can get into range. This test seemed to be a mock dogfight, that would clearly give the Russians an advantage.
 
August 23rd, 2005   #6
vargsriket
 
Well, with upgraded avionics, as they're building with the new Sukhoi fighters now, the range of both aircraft is pretty much equal.
 
August 23rd, 2005   #7
FULLMETALJACKET
 
 
I wouldnt go to the point of superior. equal is a more likelly term.
 
August 23rd, 2005   #8
LeEnfield
 
 
Where America really scores is on it's electronics and avionics, and it this that will cancel out other advantages that the Russian fighter might have


LeEnfield Rides again

 
August 24th, 2005   #9
ozmilman
 
Hiiiiighwayyyy to, the, danger zone... I feel like watching top-gun now.

Rich.
 
August 24th, 2005   #10
SAINT
 
Let's wait for the F-22...

Everything will be back to normal... when the skies again belong to the US.




WHY IN THE WORLD DO WE NEED TO FIGHT SO OFTEN? HAVE WE FORGOTTEN THE BABIES?
 



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