Pixieboodust

Conception only happens when the sperm reaches the egg and fertilizes and thats about 3 days after intercourse, so whether you wear a condom or take the pill it really makes no difference.

Do you know how the morning after pill works? It slows the sperm down so that it doesn't reach the egg in time.

and again, we are not talking about a living baby but a mass of cells, its not even a fetus.

Originally Posted by pixiedustboo

They ARE just as important as a human being. There would BE no baby if not for that moment of conception and those 'cells.'

How can you validate this statement against this one:

Morning after pills are not a birth control and should not be used as such. I believe these should be hospital regulated and only given to women that are raped.

On one hand you are anti-abortion because its the killing of a defenseless humanbeing and yet given this circumstance you are all for killing the same defenseless humanbeing. Unless of course you believe that a baby as a result of rape is as guilty as the offender.

It seems to me that the pro-life side like to take the mother out of the equation from the moment of conception except in these cases where the mother apparently gets a say in the process.

As I said earlier I don't want to get into this discussion but I am intrigued by what is effectively a double standard.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

Del Boy

"I am sorry about your wifes miscarriage, I truly am. But that is no reason to impose your views on conception on others because you suffered a loss. "


Hi MM - Thank you - but that was not the point. I was making the point that the loss of a baby, in fact, involves the removal of a son or daughter.

--------------------------------------------------



"And again you fail to mention a solution to all the unwanted babies that are abandoned each year by their parents. Its always those that have not been born rather than the babies that are already born."

"




I feel this is a different subject, but it would certainly not be to murder them.

And I am not imposing anything on anyone else - I was asked to give an opinion, was I not, and tried to do so although I had no wish to present such unpalatable truths. Also, I am very aware of the predicament this presents for those involved, but murder just cannot be the answer.

I do so object to continually being lumped as part of a political agenda - I have a mind of my own you know, and the last thing I wish to do is to offend those who do not share my view.

So let me try to say that I just cannot share the view that abortion as contraception is acceptable. Avoiding conception is another matter. I have no wish to stone anyone, far from it.

Now that is definitely the last from me, it is too important an issue.

Del Boy

One thing I have learned from listening to you is that the abortion issue is very different in Europe than in America. For example, you dont want it to be lumped as a political issue, but in the States its the only way it comes. Its impossible to avoid the politics when it comes to abortion.

But I would like to offer an apology, when I said 'you' I was really referring to the pro-life movement in America, not you specifically. I realize now thats sort of they way it came out, and that wasn't fair. So again, my apologies.

You are a gent sir. And allow me to apologize if i ever appeared to be condemning those have found themselves between a rock and a hard place trying to deal personally with such a problem. We all have our own packs to carry, and God knows, I find mine (guilt) quite heavy enough thanks.

I'm now going to collect my coat and quietly slip away from this one while I still have my skin!

im amazed this discussion has stayed as civil as it it has...a credit to all commenting in it. well done.


as someone who has made this difficult decision before...im pro choice (but it's not as huge of an issue here is it is in the US for example)

it wasn't the easy way out,but it was the best of a series of shitty shitty options. but im glad we made the choice we made. neither me, or my partner was in any position to raise a child. and yes, there was protection used on both sides, magic BB's happen it seems.

personally the highly emotive terms the pro lifers seem to use really get my back up, and is in effect their morals being enforced to the point where they want to tell my partner what she does with her body...where as the pro choice lobby forces no one to do something they dont want to.

Since I live in the only state to actually pass a legislative ban on abortion, this is a subject with which I have some familiarity.

Abortion IS:
A life saving procedure when the mother is in danger.
A legitimate means to terminate a pregnancy that is the result of rape or incest.

Abortion IS NOT:
A voluntary procedure as a matter of convenience to the women.
A voluntary procedure to save money << Even the GOP concedes that children should be given financial assistance and provide money, vouchers and healthcare for those who are unable to pay for it themselves.
A form of contraceptive.

Now, it's important to clarify something here. Some people will lump certain miscarriages in with abortions to fudge the numbers and make abortion look more widespread and acceptable. A woman can have a miscarriage anytime between the day of conception and the birth. If I remember correctly, a period can technically be considered a miscarriage. Having a miscarriage in the fourth month that requires medical attention IS NOT an abortion, it's a miscarriage. The "my body, my choice" argument falls on deaf ears for me, the government already says I'm not allowed to do drugs in my own bedroom and if I was to ever get back into the Army they would tell me I'm not allowed to stick certain objects in certain holes. The government already tells me I can't sleep with horses (not that it's on my bucket list or anything) and I'm not allowed to drink alcohol. I'm not allowed to ask a doctor to end my life if I'm in pain, miserable, but am unable to perform the action myself. The government already maintains a list of things we can and can not do to our own bodies, abortion definitely shouldn't be different, especially when more than the mother's life is in danger.

Now, having said that, I also think the government should take more steps to help poor families with raising children. If a man gets a woman pregnant, those two, as parents, have a duty to provide for the child. If I get a woman pregnant here at school I would drop out of school and start working full-time, multiple jobs, overtime as possible. The child didn't make a mistake, I did, I should be the one to pick up the slack, not the child.

Here's a video I thought was kind of interesting about our recent abortion ban. This video, like all others, says that the law made no exception for incest, rape or health of the mother (but of course danger to the mother's health and mother's life in danger means the same thing over here since every pregnancy puts the mother at risk) which of course is ridiculous. Referred Law 6 made exceptions for all those cases and mandated the use of the morning after pill in the case of rape and incest to prevent the pregnancy from occurring. But because it wasn't worded specifically enough some people liked to say it didn't make the exception. Another bill has been introduced to the State Legislature to ban abortion, this time it states the exceptions for rape, incest and mother's health more specifically.

Link

Originally Posted by Damien435

The child didn't make a mistake, I did, I should be the one to pick up the slack, not the child.

WELL SAID!

Originally Posted by Missileer

Pro-life except in cases of rape, incest, or the life of the Mother. We can't use abortion to cull the herd.

I'm on the same page as you.

Originally Posted by Infern0

im amazed this discussion has stayed as civil as it it has...a credit to all commenting in it. well done.


"where as the pro choice lobby forces no one to do something they dont want to.

"



Except the baby,of course. And the rest of society who have to accept responsibility for existence of abortion in their midst as though they condone it. ( just talking principle - I am not fighting about it here.)

I stand just about where Damien does I think, but I haven't had time to read the small print. And Missileer.

I really must shut up.