About The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe! Page 64
|May 9th, 2006||#631|
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|May 9th, 2006||#632|
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If my memory is not playing tricks on me, whch I don't think it is, an EMP will only effect electronics that are in use at the time, correct?
Please note that 98% of what I say is my opinion and/or my "version" of the facts. Most of what I say is rumor with little to no evidence to back it up, just something I picked up somewhere.
|May 10th, 2006||#633|
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The Balkans are only part of it. With so many men they will open a multi-front war making their way through Hungary and Poland where everthing is flat.
As for the Medeterranian, this is were absolutely don't know what you are talking about.
In the open ocean such as the Pacific or Atlatic the Western Navies can reign supreme and nothing can chalenge them, but this is not the open ocean this is the Med which is small and enclosed.
The Islamics can launch thousands upon thousands of Exocet, Silkworm and Sunburn missles. They can do this from either land-based platforms or thousands upon thousand of disposable cheap sea vessels. These vessels can be anything, sail boats, pt boats, as long as it floats and can fit one missle, nothing fancy. Since the Med is not open ocean they can fare with lesser inferior sea craft to do the job.
The Euro navy will simply be overwhelmed with the missles even though they will destroy thousands of enemy vessels, more will come and they will eventualy be swamped.
After this is done the Islamics can they invade Spain, and open up both Italian flanks, landing from Africa and the Balkans. (There is more detail, but like I said I don't feel like explaining myself again in this thread.)
My explaination was that there will be NO NUCLEAR EXCHANGE because of EMP, for the reason given of not trading away even a few of our cities for their entire region.
YOU REALLY NEED TO READ WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED!
What if the alternative fuel comes form corn? What are they put corn in a duplicating machine, yeah maybe in Star Treck.
Economies will use what is readily and closely available, just because the US will use alt fuels doesn't mean China and Europe will. This just means because the US no longer demands oil, then this will free up more reseves for them, making it cheaper for them and making them even more dependant on oil. Do you see how this works.
And if what you are saying is true about Europe adapting alt fuels a year after the US does. How come Brazil has been using alt fuels for years, and Europe isn't using it, how come we are not using? Why? This is why I say you have no clue relating to reality.
I'm simply too lazy to answer more the same type of questions for the umpteenth time. And considering the fact you can't even read properly what has been posted, I don't see why I have to do it all over again.
Last edited by gladius; May 10th, 2006 at 06:30..
|May 10th, 2006||#634|
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As for reading standard US military websites, I've done that alot. As far as that is concerened they do know everything about war as it exist right now. But then again the same type of military "experts" prior to WW2 got caught with their pants down because they failed to think outside the box of what can happen and is possible.
This will delay full mobilization, in order for the Islamics to out attrition the West at the front.
The non-use of chemiclas in WW2 is another case for my pointing out why there will be no nuclear exchange even with EMP, because the West is not insane.
You truly don't understand this.
Any devout Mulsim whether he is rich or poor, fat or thin, will have his loyalty to Islam FIRST and not to your country.
This is so common sense it goes over your head doesn't it. I've mention their beliefs already several times you still don't get it.
I've mentioned this before, they do not have to have the industrial capacity they can simply buy the weapons. Saddam Hussien had the 4th largest army at one point, and they didn't manifacture any of thier stuff. So they don't need and industrial base, in fact having no large sophisticated industrial base will make them less vunerable to EMP.
And since when is the Bush group trying to do a systematic destruction of the Middle East? Having democracy and openess in the Middle East, is excatly our one last chance (although it is a slim one) to see that this doesn't happen.
But what happens when you can't deliver ammo or fuel to it because the EMP has disabled the trains and vehicles delivering ammo and fuel to the battle front. Not to mention the electric circuits of the gas pumps and cranes that lift ammo and pump the fuel.
What do you do then? What happens when the tanks start run out of gas or ammo, and you are outnumbered 10 to 1???
This is why I said the EMP will have tremedous effect despite ALL what you have said.
This is just one of the reasons why the invasion is possible.
Last edited by gladius; May 10th, 2006 at 07:01..
|May 10th, 2006||#635|
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Its the cumulative effects as a result of an EMP that will allow the invasion to occur.
This is not a one set deal, it is a combination of all factors that make this possible. Some people just can't seem to see this.
But my point is the war is already well underway and it will take time for them to do this.
The fact that everything is out and there is no power will take even longer.
So you are hit with a double whammy producing more delays, all the while our outnumbered troops are fighting the enemy at odds of around 10 to 1 or more, and running out of fuel and ammo with no resupply becaue becuase there no power and nothing works.
Not to mention the in-country Jihadist are adding to the chaos and mess caused by the what is already happening.
Missileer, mention something in this thread a while back, relating to the magnetics class he took in college, what he learned was pointing to all items being affected whether it is on or not. (if I'm not mistaken)
Last edited by gladius; May 10th, 2006 at 07:07..
|May 10th, 2006||#636|
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So, since a pinch will do almost nothing to offset the western world, I suppose that a nuke is the only way to do what you are saying. The only other way to create an EMP this intense is a meteor strike, but I doubt the muslim world can control those.
The part about china and russia using oil is also false. Another basic part of economics is cost of production vs. price of commodity. If a viable type of alt. fuel could be produced, then it could be produced cheaply in a labratory (they are producing ethanol in labs now). They could be produced much cheaper then it takes to get oil, which costs quite a bit to extract.
After looking up what you said about brazil, I discovered that only about 50% of all cars in brazil use alt. fuel, and they all use ethanol. The problem with ethanol is that it is highly flammable when it mixes with too much water, and it costs more to produce then it does to get oil for us. We actually produce more ethanol then brazil does, and I personally use E10, which is a 10% ethanol mix. This is used through out the midwest of the USA (even though I live in the east) and production is slated to double by 2007.
The entire continent will not be affected, unless you entend to limit your EMP to 30 miles up (which will cause almost no damage anywhere) Since I have already meantioned the troops(while you ignore what I said, see above posts), I will not continue there. Again, military equipment will be hardened against EMP, so supply lines will still be flowing to the troops. Actually, most motors and such will be only lightly effected (check wikipedia for this) and EMPs have a 10 mile radius. You will need as many nukes as there are in existance just create and emp big enough to hit all of europe (not to meantion the US)
Last edited by WNxRogue; May 11th, 2006 at 21:44..
|May 12th, 2006||#637|
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Besides carpet bombings are not generaly used on moving targets and formations they are used on static targets.
Even in Gulf War 1, with all the air sorties over the small open dessert area of Kuwait, you'd think they would have gotten all the tanks, but there were enough left over for a few big tank battles.
This will be an area of over the entire continent of Europe in composed of several different fronts, the air power can't be everywhere and alot will get through, not to mention the attriton rate they will have to face. This doesn't even count any disruption caused by EMP which will sever alot of the communication in oder to coordinate air strikes.
As for Aegis... This again is an illustration why aren't well informed on any of this stuff.
You obvisuosly havent heard of the Sunburn missle. The Sunburn was specifically designed by the Russians to defeat Aegis.
The Exocet and Silkworm sea-skimming missiles travel at sub-sonic speeds, it takes about 10 seconds at the range Aegis can hit them to reach the Ship. Aegis will have time to defeat a dozen of these coming in at once.
The Sunburn however, is a new supersonic sea-skimming missile It will take one second at the range Aegis can hit it, before it reaches the ship. Aegis will only be able to defeat on or two of these at the same time. What if a dozen or more come at the ship, what then?
Like I said, you're trying to say why this scenario won't work and you haven't got a clue whats out there.
btw...Iran now has a number of Sunburn missiles which it purchased from Russia.
As for the lasers you don't know when they will be put into service, I hope we do get them.
Are you sure you even understand EMP's, or have any understanding of whats real and whats not?
HAhahahahhahhahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahahhahahah ahhaahhaha. I think I need to explain this to you before I die laughing. This what I am saying; you are making all kinds of comments here try to disprove what I say, when you have no sense or clue of what is even real.
You are saying the range of nuclear EMP is only 10 miles? This is why I almost laughed myself to death.
US scientists first noticed EMP back in 1962, when they had a little nuclear experiment called "Starfish Prime". They exploded a one-and-a-half megaton nuclear weapon 400 km above Johnston Island in the Pacific. 1500 km away in Hawaii, there was massive electronic destruction as three hundred street lights blew up, burglar alarms triggered off, power lines fused and TV sets exploded.
...the area covered by an EMP signal can be immense. As a consequence, large portions of extended power and communications networks, for example, can simultaneously be put at risk. Such far-reaching effects are peculiar to EMP...
...The area of the Earth's surface directly illuminated by EMP is determined entirely by the height of burst. All points on the Earth's surface within the horizon, as seen from the burst point, will experience EMP effects as depicted in figure 2, which is on page 3 of your handout. Note that a burst on the order of 500 kilometers in altitude can cover the entire continental United States...
...In stark contrast, high-altitude burst, detonated a few hundred kilometers above the surface of the Earth, has as its salient featured effect the ability to simultaneously bathe an entire continent in EMP. The ability of EMP to induce potentially damaging voltages and currents in unprotected electronic circuits and components is well-known. The immense footprint of EMP can therefore simultaneously place at risk unhardened military systems, as well as critical infrastructure systems to include power grids, telecommunication networks, transportation systems, banking systems, medical services, civil emergency systems and so forth...
For example, if a megaton class weapon were to be detonated 400 kilometers above Omaha, nearly the entire contiguous 48 States would be affected with potentially damaging EMP experience from Boston to Los Angeles, from Chicago to New Orleans.
We have recently learned that Soviet scientists observed similar disruptions following their high-altitude tests. In one test, all protective devices and overhead communication lines were damaged at distances out to 500 kilometers. The same event saw a 1,000 kilometer segment of power line essentially shut down by these effects.
An EMP has only the range 10 miles did you say?
HAHHAHAHAhahaha. Now you know why I can't stop laughing.
Try the entire Continental United States. Which is a bit more than 10 miles.
(the source by the way was from official congressional hearings and scientist being interviewed by members of congress)
You also mention about theat the Muslims would have to produce a meteor strike, I don't think so.
...I haven't looked at EMP for a long time, and I hope you will forgive me for being behind the times on this, but am I to understand that you are saying that the pulse could be generated by a high altitude explosion of any nuclear weapon? Or would it have to be a specially designed weapon to provide the magnitude of pulse you are talking about?
Dr. WOOD. Sir, any nuclear weapon of the type that is stockpiled anywhere at the present time will generate high altitude EMP simply because some finite fraction of the order of percent of its output will be in the gamma rays that drive the pulse, as Dr. Smith and Dr. Ullrich extremely ably described it in their opening statements...
Meteor strike??? More like any ONE nuclear weapon.
Last edited by gladius; May 12th, 2006 at 06:15..
|May 12th, 2006||#638|
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You don't seem to have real perception of what's true in real world terms and what's not. Heres a quick lesson on economics & supply and demand.
Why is the US seriously considering alt fuel right now?
Because gas prices are so high. That's the only reason. If the prices were low again we wouldn't care less and there would be no demand to pursue it.
If the US stops importing fuel from the Middle East then it will free up reserves for China and Europe to use. Because there is more supply there is less demand, the prices go down.
Europe and China gets it cheaper where it would cost less for them to maintain the stauts quo rather than go into a costly effort to convert their infrastucture to handle alt fuels.
The price of oil will go as low as is nesacery to sell it. Opec will not sit on the oil do nothing when they can drive the prices down enough for Europe to keep being dependant on it. This is how economies work.
Beisdes if Europe wanted to convert to alt fuels, they would have done it years ago. The technology for alt fuels is nothing new, we are only pursuing this because of demand due to high gas prices.
Do you get it now?
Your assesmnet of the Vickers is completely off, it would be more like the Tiger vs Shermans in WW2. We would be able to kill lots of their vehicles, but us being outnumbered some 10 to 1, the enemy would still be able to do harm, like the Shermans did with the Tigers.
Beside they will more than likely also have a fair number of modern MBT's almost if not equal to ours. Those vehicles I mentioned was to supliment and give them numbers. Those vehicles will go in with to support the MBT's in order to swarm the Western defences. Most likley, the MBT's will hit from the front while the lesser vehicles hit the flanks, and or provide screening action for their MBT's.
...It is my understanding that about 500 kilometers, a 1-megaton burst would lay down an EMP blanket over the entire contiguous 48 States that at the margins—that is at San Diego and Maine...
...For example, 95 percent of our military communications go through commercial channels. Are we confident that EMP will not disable or disrupt these commercial communications systems? How confident are we that the military could continue to communicate effectively if commercial systems were disrupted or completely disabled by EMP? How thoroughly do we protect our weapons systems from EMP? Are we confident they will continue to function?...
...Much of what we depend on today would be susceptible to EMP effects, both in the military and civilian infrastructure...
Even more regrettable was the fact that most major military hardware and systems, especially those not considered vital to the conduct of strategic nuclear war, were not hardened against EMP much at all. As a result, at the present time our national profile of vulnerability to EMP attack is highly uneven, with large parts of our military machine and virtually all of the equipment undergirding modern American civilization being utterly EMP vulnerable.
The supply lines will be severely affected.
Most military communications, transport, and services are done through civillian cahnnels which are NOT hardened and will be affected. Not mention part of the militery itself is also NOT hardened.
This war will be very possible.
Other conducting structures, such as aircraft, ships, automobiles, railroad tracks, power lines, and communication lines connected to ground facilities, also effectively serve as receiving antennas for EMP coupling. If the resulting induced currents and voltages, which can be large, are allowed to interact with sensitive electronic circuit and components, they can induce an upset in digital logic circuits or cause damage to the components themselves...
This EMP also shut down radio stations, turned off cars, burned out telephone systems, and wreaked other mischief throughout the Hawaiian Islands nearly 1,000 miles distant from ground zero...
Mr. WELDON. How about automobiles? We mentioned that before because of the use of microprocessors and all. Do we have any studies done on the impact on automobiles and vehicles?
Dr. WOOD. Because of exactly what you said, sir, the fact that modern automobiles are very semiconductor- and microprocessor-intensive, the likelihood that they would suffer catastrophic damage so that they could not operate is much larger than it was back in the sixties when some automobiles, at least in anecdotal reports, were shut down due to the Starfish explosion. These were automobiles in the Hawaiian Islands
Automobiles and and most vehicles will be disable and clog the highways, making it dificult for any surviving vehicles to transport supplies and munitions to the front.
This information from the sources I have posted, are from the nations top scientist regarding EMP, as they testified before congress. So don't give some other secondary source that is not information by the top scientists in this field.
I'll not laugh this time.
However, I suggest you just read the thread if you want more information.
The reason I say this becuase most of the stuff you ask has already been discussed. And two your grasp of what is real and what is not and how it relates to the real world is questionable, and I find myslef having to explain rudamentary stuff of how things work becuase you don't seem to have an acurate grasp of it, and I'd rather not do that.
In the future, I'm sorry but I'll have to refer you to reading the thread as you should have done, or at least explored in the first place, in order to get a handle of what this is all about, and how and realities relating to real world stuff, before making all kinds of comments why it won't work.
Last edited by gladius; May 12th, 2006 at 06:28..
|May 12th, 2006||#639|
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[quote=gladius]Beisdes if Europe wanted to convert to alt fuels, they would have done it years ago. The technology for alt fuels is nothing new, we are only pursuing this because of demand due to high gas prices./quote]
Hi Gladius the "Persistent",
If you keep firing back with all guns, you will eventually run out of ammunition. I sort of like the tenacity, however. Keep it up. Since I think that you are a rather sensitive person, and I am not here to cut off any heads, I would like to stress that this post is not intended to put you down, or Christians, or anyone. I only want to point out some theoretical issues.
I have noticed that conceptual verification does not work for you. If you argue that Europe will be dependent on Muslim oil in 50 years, and someone points out that there are alternatives, you argue that Europe will not alter their current system because they have not done so in the past. Your argument, and the matter of oil is only one aspect of many, is therefore "modernist" in tone.
Modernism: What is modernism? The modern period was the period of ideologies such as communism, fascism and nazism. Each of them offered a way of looking at history (historical materialism or social-darwinism) using what seemed a mysterious structure guiding human "development" (another modernist perspective). You propose the "Mahdi ideology" which is more reminiscent of the so-called Christian “End Times” or the eschatological belief that history as we know it will end in a titanic struggle between good and evil whereby Satan mobilizes the human masses against Jesus. I do not want to discuss the “End Times”. I only want to point out that your argument fails to surmount all of the obstacles normally found in any ideology. It is in a sense even cruder because the idea only takes a few elements of the Christian concept of Apocalypse (ie. Armageddon) and attempts to construct a prediction of the future using very selective judgments concerning the “evidence”. All contradictions are rejected.
Ideology: What is an ideology? Hannah Arendt: "An ideology is quite literally what its name indicates: it is the logic of an idea. Its subject matter is history, to which the 'idea' is applied; the result of this application is not a body of statements about something that is, but the unfolding of a process which is in constant change. The ideology treats the course of events as though it followed the same 'law' as the logical exposition of its 'idea.' Ideologies pretend to know the mysteries of the whole historical process -- the secrets of the past, the intricacies of the present, the uncertainties of the future -- because of the logic inherent in their respective ideas". This definition matches the "Mahdi ideology".
The Problems: One of the problems with modernist techniques is that the study of history cannot be made scientific. Science generally attempts to study something using an hypothesis, testing the hypothesis, and creating a model whereby the hypothesis is reproducible. But history is too complex to create a system whereby the future can be forecast. There are too many variables and possibilities for alternative outcomes. Using the case of European energy, it is easily demonstrated that (1) Europe imports heavily from Russia, (2) Indigenous oil is important, (3) Europe is developing significant alternatives such as bio-diesel or solar energy, and that (4) European politicians are in any case very keen on avoiding any dependency on the Muslim oil producers. You probably discount these "elements" of the problem BECAUSE they do not fit with your model concerning the future. Your "historicism" is leading you to interpret current developments in such a way as to fit the desired end of history. The notion that humans can understand the past in order to predict the future is utterly deceptive and, I am sorry to say, typical of fundamentalist Christian perspectives.
Modernism is not Truth: The actual verification of concepts becomes irrelevant. You might think that you are offering accurate and sufficient evidence, but you are in reality only coming back to the initial hypothesis. That is, the possibility that Europe could develop new technologies is unimportant because the Mahdi will attack Europe. The possibility that the Muslim world could change and become more passive is discounted as unimportant because the Mahdi will attack Europe. The contemporary weakness of the Middle-East is unimportant because the Mahdi will attack Europe (etc.) What matters is (1) the belief that the future will unfold exactly as envisioned, (2) that all evidence will bend to fit the theory, and (3) that nothing can be done to change the future. This historical determinism is ahistorical (counter to the teachings of the historical discipline) because the discipline emphasizes the utter complexity of all human actions. History cannot predict the future. It is also highly “modernist” in that the proponents wanted “to reveal official history as a joke, to demonstrate a sphere of secret influences of which the visible, tracable, and known historical reality was only the outward façade erected explicitly to fool the people”. (Hannah Arendt)
Last edited by Ollie Garchy; May 12th, 2006 at 18:16..
|May 12th, 2006||#640|
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Although an EMP is possible if released overhead, it will not be nearly at a magnatude of what you are saying. To create an EMP that will short out communication networks (not lamp posts) across an entire continent, you will need a 20 megaton nuke detonated at 400 km. This attack would not permanantly damage it though, at that altitude the EMP would weaken enough (especially when you hit dense air) that it would knockout devices..........for a few minutes.....maybe an hour. Since I cant remeber the muslims having a 20 megaton nuke. At the same time, a missile going up to 400 km would be easily detected and destroyed by one of our missles.
Also, quick question on economics for you. If what you say is true, then why would any metal be reconstituted. 75% of the metal we use today is recycled from scrap. I mean, the people who mine metal and process it would just lower prices to maintain competative....right? Wrong, because the price to reconstitute is much lower then to mine it. The same is true of oil. It costs a lot of money to drill for oil, then to purify and ship it. If cost efficient alt. fuels could be made in a labratory, then a company with labs could lower the price lower then oil companies could afford to lower it. That is the basis of mass production: If something is harder to produce or extract, it will be more expensive.
As for vehicles it doesnt matter what weapons you mount on it, they wont work. Its like trying to drop a brand new V8 in an old VW bug....it just wont work. You can not refurbish a 70+ year old vehicle to modern standards....especially in combat situations.
As for the lasers as anti-missile, we actually have some. The US government just bought 10 747s, and mounted them with a laser on the nose for taking down missiles. Unfortunatly, it isnbt on their site yet, but I saw the article in this month's popular mechanics magazine.
Last edited by WNxRogue; May 12th, 2006 at 19:53..