About Regisvo, off-topic from "Anne Frank's Diary" threa
|February 7th, 2005||#1|
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First of all, I can't remember who have invented the tactic of famine first in the world and I also don't know who are useing it now. And the world is so simple that can be explained with a few words, so perhaps you can give me some specialized knowledges.
then this is a reply to _Case scenario for South Korea actually attacking North Korea?_ thread.
Plus there are some N.Korea's displaced persons are being guided by some rude-gentlemen to be impinging on the embassies in Beijing. How rude, how naive, LOL, any foreign army's act that enter N.Korea's territory with self-guarantee is a invasion. So please throw your little crystal ball of colonialism away, it's useless at present even if you have a huge one.
[quote]If China enters the fray, South Korea will have to rush up to at least claim Pyongyang. Expect China to top a lot of people's sh1t list. Diplomatically, it will be disaster for China[quote]
Fray? Don't use un-correct word - invasion is invasion, fray is fray. What is invasion? look, invasion: The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
China will have a diplomatical disaster? I'd say you are too ... hehe.
And You said in _Can S.Korea handle N.Korea alone?_ thread
[quote]Yup, the economy, the immigration. The sh1t is going to hit the fan big time. This is why I am strongly against quick unification. It will destroy South Korea. They say in the long run it'll be better. We don't live in a post cold war Germany. We don't have that sort of time.
And I can't stand it but some people think it's going to work just because we're all Korean. I don't need to tell you how retarded that sort of thinking is.[quote]
Now that you don't wish to unification because some economy, money related causes and prefer imaging to conquer N.Korea. The thing is clear that Conquering and unifying is different. Of course China isn't N.Korea's territory today, but N.Korean might imaging more options maybe, such as to unify with China. It is reasonable because Korea and China was a United-People country legally (drop the incorrect name DYNASTY which had been given by Westerner) before 1948. And the concept of Nation-State had cause many disasters in the certain cases (caution: I agree with the self-determination in the cases of colony and the territory which be occupyed doesn't belong to the category of colony), for instance: many people died on the South-China-Sea for establishing a pure Nation-State of Viet Nam. You might say Korean is different to Chinese, but they all was Qing-ese (Qing 1644-1912), Ming-ese (Ming 1368-1644), Tang-ese (Tang 618-907), Han-ese (Han 206 B.C. - A.D. 220), it's same thing, just name changed.
This is also a scenario of what-if of mine. And I am not telling people what to do, just present the interesting facts relatively and reasonable assumer.
|February 7th, 2005||#2|
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First of all, lose the tone.
The scenario about the bio or nuke weapons to terrorists is an "if" scenario. And I've even mentioned that I doubt the North Koreans are stupid enough to pull something like that off in the first place. It's an "if."
Notice how I put "peaceful re-unification" in quotation marks? That's because it's not going to really turn out that way. It is a re-unification in that the country used to be one. You have to remember that Korea is a situation of one nation and two states. I am against unification in the near future. However, demand for unification is very high. And the idea here is that it won't be a conquering of North Korea, rather a disolving of the border and sharing power. I think that is pure fantasy, but that's what the idea over here is. I'm just telling you their idea. But if North Korea collapses, South Korea will feel an obligation to restore order in North Korea.
This is not a theory of colonialism. Us going over and grabbing a Filipino Island is colonialism. It will take a lot of things to go wrong for North Korea's government to collapse... but a lot of things are going wrong up there. What will happen if or when Kim Jong-il is removed from power is anyone's guess. And like I said before, I am not in favor of integrating North Korea into South Korea to make a unified country in the near future.
What North Koreans repeatedly say is, South Koreans are the traitors etc. but eventually people they're going to have to reeducate into the "true ways of Korea" through Juche. It's the Americans that the North Koreans REALLY hate.
I did not misuse the word "fray." I used it in the sense that there would be chaos if the North Korean government fell, leaving a struggle for power and a power vacuum. If China entered that fray and sent troops, it would have entered the fray. Yes it would have invaded too, but to say China enters the fray, it's not misleading in any way. Don't lecture to me about my English. My English is much better than yours.
South Korea wouldn't have as big of a diplomatic disaster as the Chinese would. South Korea's intervention would be very controversial because they'd have to break off from the UN Command in order to do that. Which in paper means the entire South Korean military just became guilty of insubordination. lol. However, for China, it would be very controversial because they're not even Korean. North Koreans and South Koreans in most cases look forward to a day of unification. If the North Korean government falls, it's pretty much safe to say that South Korea just won the standoff. If someone had to go in to restore order in North Korea, that would be South Korea's job.
I've always said I didn't want unification in the near future. I have been consistent on this. I gave you a scenario on South Korea sending troops up North. I gave a SCENARIO. I gave the scenario because another Chinese poster asked me if it could happen. I said, very unlikely, but I will make a SEPARATE THREAD on that issue. And so I did. You didn't read anything else. You just read the scenario and assumed it was my wish list. Unlike some people here (you know who you are), my "possible scenarios" are not neccessarily "oooh I wished this happened... YIPEE!!!" threads.
North Korea wishing to unify with China? Where did you get that idea from? Like I said, North Korea wants to unify with South Korea, but has very different plans about it than a lot of South Koreans would want. North Korea's diplomatic route in reconciliation with South Korea has worked worryingly well as of late. Again, Korea is Korea. We disagree like hell, we fight etc., but in the end Korea is Korea and both sides by in large want a united Korea. HOW to do that is the issue. I am one of the minority who do not wish for near future unification because I feel it will be harmful for both South Koreans and North Koreans.
As a scenario, it is a VERY unrealistic scenario. North Koreans would not accept such a unification. They even abolished the Chinese character writing system in their language because of their dislike of the Chinese. Their whole bid to be the "real Korea" would be crushed if they wanted to be a part of China.
"You might say Korean is different to Chinese, but they all was Qing-ese (Qing 1644-1912), Ming-ese (Ming 1368-1644), Tang-ese (Tang 618-907), Han-ese (Han 206 B.C. - A.D. 220), it's same thing, just name changed. "
Here's a list of things I stand on regarding this issue:
- I don't want unification of any kind in the near future.
- I believe that once North Korea's government falls, it is South Korea's duty to restore order and aid the rebuilding of North Korea. Aid, not do everything by ourselves.
- If North Korea falls, investigators from various organizations must come to North Korea to witness what's happened there and also investigate the crimes of the North Korean government on its own people.
- South Korea unifying with North Korea, I feel is a mistake, but if the government falls and there is anarchy in the North, someone HAS to restore the order. It is an entirely different scenario from if there is actually still a working government in North Korea.
- China must stay on its own side of the Yalu river.
|February 8th, 2005||#5|
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hey man, dont swear on this thread
redneck 13, i realize ur angry at these fellow people, but no need to offend the chinese.
heres something u should know about korea:
5000 years ago when the first civ in asia thrived it was teh chinese empire, mainly in the provinces of shantong henan, shanxi and shanxi ( prnouced differetly)
then the chiense just went and settled in most recent chinese provinces 2000 years ago
it was around this time when tribes dominated the asian mainland, there goes the japanese and koreans, they were born from tribal societies that relied on fishing and hunting
as time goes on china became bigger and population boomed
during several land conquests, china took korea, vietnam, and mongolia
these states took under the chinese writing and thereby the chinese influence began
soon these states had relied ( yes relied, dont cry what i said ) on the chiense culture, ways and customs
writing, chopsticks, style of clothing and technology spread around asia as china became more influential
when the tang dynasty ended, korea gained independency
then the song dynasty came, and korea was then a vassal state
she had to pay money, local goods and servants
then came the mongols and their savage ways clearly offended the chiense and koreans too
around this time the koreans felt nationstlic and changed the writing
ming came and korea was again a vassal state, paying the same
when ming became corrupted it was really bad that at times korea was almost free from chinese control
qing came and the same vassal system was applied, when it was also corrupted korea was free of chiense control onceagain
this lasted to this day
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|February 8th, 2005||#8|
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There's nothing really "incorrect" about it. It's just very badly one sided.
"then came the mongols and their savage ways clearly offended the chiense and koreans too
around this time the koreans felt nationstlic and changed the writing "
Not entirely true. Koreans and Japanese always had their own language, but what was true was that there was no given writing system for them. I can't speak for how Japan went, but with Korea, using some Chinese symbols for the phonetic words (i.e. using the characters for sounds but not the meaning) led to so much confusion that an original Korean script was formed. It had more to do with fixing a clumsy writing system than nationalism. It wasn't so much so that the writing system was "changed." The traditional use of Chinese characters were retained, but the use of the phonetic system was introduced where the characters caused confusion.
"writing, chopsticks, style of clothing and technology spread around asia as china became more influential "
Korean clothing has more in common with the more sophisticated Mongolian dresses than with Chinese clothing.
"then the song dynasty came, and korea was then a vassal state
she had to pay money, local goods and servants
then came the mongols and their savage ways clearly offended the chiense and koreans too "
More like the Song Dynasty came along and extorted the Koreans. Koreans once again got a clear example of why it was neccessary to get their things together and defend the country successfully. However, results were always mixed. China offended Korea. Mongolia offended Korea too.
Remember, influence doesn't mean ownership. This is yet another example of the attitude that makes a lot of us weary of the Chinese. You have any idea how much the French influenced the British? French was actually for a while the official language of Britain. Does that make the UK French territory? No need to mention how much the Dutch were influenced by the Germans.