Originally Posted by Doppleganger

The over-arching reason for D-Day was not, I suggest, the liberation of Western Europe for its own sake, but to prevent Soviet expansion westward if they won their war against Germany.

It is common knowledge that Stalin demanded a 2nd front opened up by the Allies, ever since the German invasion in June 1941. It was his main political aim after 1941 and he succeeded in getting his way. I suggest that by 1943 it was clear that Germany would eventually be ground down by the Soviet Union and thus the Western Allies feared what would happen to the rest of Europe once Germany had been defeated.

Overlord had 2 purposes of which the first is well known. That is to destroy the German armies in the field and to liberate occupied territories seized by the Germans and then to occupy Germany and force an unconditional surrender. However, the 2nd purpose was to ensure that the Red Army did not a) wholly occupy Germany and b) continue westwards until they reached the Atlantic.

The Allies even drew up a plan of Soviet conquest, called Operation Unthinkable. However, the plan was never implemented because the American and British planners came to the conclusion that they would do no better (and probably a lot worse) than the Wehrmacht did in 1941. The main architect of this plan was Churchill, who envisaged that up to 100,000 soldiers of the former Wehrmacht would be deployed alongside allied armies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlConte...1/nwar101.html
http://www.history.neu.edu/PRO2/

The problem with this is that it doesn't take into account the Italian campaign, if the plan was to prevent Soviet expansion then surely reinforcing the Italian front in 1943 and strengthening operation Anvil/Dragoon was a more secure option as they already had large supply bases in Italy and Sicily and it gave them a land route into France, Austria and Yugoslavia.

Originally Posted by MontyB

The problem with this is that it doesn't take into account the Italian campaign, if the plan was to prevent Soviet expansion then surely reinforcing the Italian front in 1943 and strengthening operation Anvil/Dragoon was a more secure option as they already had large supply bases in Italy and Sicily and it gave them a land route into France, Austria and Yugoslavia.

Monty: The Italian campaign was a sideshow and a serious distraction from the invasion of NW Europe as far as the Americans were concerned. That both the Africa and Italian campaigns were entertained at all demonstrates the influence the British and Churchill still had it the middle part of the war. Logistically it was a nightmare for the Allies, and a major victory for the Germans who put a fraction of the resources into the defence of the Italian peninsula. With regards to land routes the allies had little chance of getting through the Alpine passes before Germany was virtually finished, a cul de sac if there was ever one.

That's very interesting....

I should have added that the whole African and Italian theatre had Churchill's fingerprints all over it. In the early stages it was to secure the shipping routes (for the British Empire) hence American suspicion, in the later stages Churchill hoped to encourage a Balkan uprising, although perhaps he invaded the wrong country. It did however provide air bases for the 12th that targeted Ploesti, Vienna, and Budapest, along with the synthetic petroleum plants in Silesia in Poland, and the Sudetenland. The Eighth Air Force did not launch a mission against the oil targets until June 18, when fifteen combat wings of B-17 s attacked eleven oil installations in northwestern Germany. Of course it could, and was claimed they were busy with D-Day before this.

Perseus..........Now if Mark Clark had followed orders and had cut off the Germans retreating from Monte Casino instead of going into Rome for a big Parade the Italian Campaign would have over there and then. Instead he sent a small blocking force which the Germans destroyed. the Germans then took another of defence that meant the war in that area just kept going and going.