Originally Posted by rocco

some people are using tanks action as a example, has the leo even been in action?

Leo 1s have been in balkans, dudging rpgs and a couple of older soviet tanks
No leo 2s have been in any armed situation besides tests and training that i know of. Germany did make a couple of KFOR leo 2s (leo 2 with a KFOR sign) but don't think that they ware ever used.

Atleast Leo 2A5s have been in the balkan area.

M1A2
Challenger2E
Merkava mk4
Leopard 2A6
Type 99


The Leclerc is crap, no matter how nice it sounds. It has all that technology and whatnot, but I bet its going to preform like .

Mod: dont country bash, or you will only be with us for a short time

Originally Posted by C/Cpl. Chirico

M1A2
Challenger2E
Merkava mk4
Leopard 2A6
Type 99


The Leclerc is crap, no matter how nice it sounds. It has all that technology and whatnot, but I bet its going to preform like ****.

The Leclerc is far from crap, it is definitely able to compete with the other man battle tanks on your list, it is definitely better then the Type 99. It's gun, ammo, fire control, mobility, and armor protection are all on par with other tanks. The only problem is that it is incredibly expensive for not that much more capability then other western tanks. That and the autoloader, which you can say whatever about.

I happened to test a server to server transfer yesterday and uploaded a movie (85 mb) about the Leopard 2 A5 (seems to be a bit old but should be nice anyways). Right click and chose "Save Target As"

http://dfmafia.net/site/silenttrigger/Leopard2A5.avi

The latest tanks are all about even. The Leo has a nice low profile, i.e. harder to hit. The Challenger has pretty hard angles to work against, nice layout. The M1A2 is a great tank but just plain huge. Easy to spot and a nice target. I expect it would simply boil down to whoever got the first clean shot.
If I had to rank them, given the Leo has yet to really be proven, it would be:

1.) M1A2
2.) Leopard 2
3.) Challenger

I don't have much to say on the latest armor from France. Only that they haven't been on the ball since the year 1812. They seem to be more interested in being "different" than "successful".
The real test for all the west latest toys will be when they come up against and enemy that has some form of real air support.

Originally Posted by Mike Main

The latest tanks are all about even. The Leo has a nice low profile, i.e. harder to hit. The Challenger has pretty hard angles to work against, nice layout. The M1A2 is a great tank but just plain huge. Easy to spot and a nice target. I expect it would simply boil down to whoever got the first clean shot.
If I had to rank them, given the Leo has yet to really be proven, it would be:

1.) M1A2
2.) Leopard 2
3.) Challenger

I don't have much to say on the latest armor from France. Only that they haven't been on the ball since the year 1812. They seem to be more interested in being "different" than "successful".
The real test for all the west latest toys will be when they come up against and enemy that has some form of real air support.

What are you talking about? The Leopard is 2.79m tall, the Abrams is 2.43m tall, so the Leopard is some .3m taller then the Abrams.

Tanks are pulled pork without aircover, as anything is.

I stand corrected. Hard to believe, but so it is.

Tonight The Military Channel had a program listing the top ten tanks of all time. They were evaluated in context with their times and in regards to five catagories of capabilities which where: Armor, Fire Power, Mobility, Production, and Fear Factor.

Commentary was made by military analysts and militarian historians from around the world. Included were Anthony Davis from Janes, Dr. William Atwater from Aberdeen Proving Ground, Dr. Aryeh Nusbacher from Sandhurst and others.

Here is their listing in reverse order:

10. M-4 Sherman (US)

9. Merkava (Israel)

8. T-54/55 (Soviet Russia)

7. Challenger (UK)

6. Mark IV Panzer (Nazi Germany)

5. Centurian (UK)

4. Mark IV (UK - WWI)

3. Tiger I (Nazi Germany)

2. M1 Abrams (US)

and the greatest tank of all time:

1. T-34 (Soviet Russia)

I was glad to see that they agreed with my picks virtually right down the line. For those who may wonder how the M1 Abrams could've ranked second they explained (and I think quite rightly) that it was because the Abrams has never gone tank on tank with a worthy adversary. The only tanks in the world that are comparible to it are all tanks of America's allies. However, should any of those tanks one day be fielded against the Abrams then we could see a difference.

THE T-34 WAS WHAT THE RUSSIANS JUST NEEDED TO TIP THE BALANCE IN MILITARY EQUIPMENT

THE T-34 IS AHEAD OF ITS RIVALS DURING THAT TIME