i would like to ask simple questions , can someone briefly tell me about the F 16 fighter . how it is a good fighter in compare to other fighters like for example the f 15 , f22 and f 35 . can it make a dogfight with advanced fighters like f 22 . does it have high speed similar to advanced fighters .can someone please tell me an overall about the f 16 , is it a good fighter for nowadays . or it is old beacause of the advanced fighters .

Imho - it is still good enough, just like any 4th generation fighter jet.

Originally Posted by master

i would like to ask simple questions , can someone briefly tell me about the F 16 fighter . how it is a good fighter in compare to other fighters like for example the f 15 , f22 and f 35 .

The F-16 still is a good fighter, it just is not capable of beating the new generation 4.5 fighters (Rafale, F-22A, EF-2000, Gripen JAS-39C and, Su-30MKI). I can say that Block 60 group of F-16s that will be equipped with AESA radar, IRST and, other advances that will make it a little more competitive. The new fighters simply have advanced engines, aerodynamics and capabilities beyond fighters designed in the 1970s and 1980s.
Check Wikipedia -a brief but, good overview of the F-16.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16

Originally Posted by master

can it make a dogfight with advanced fighters like f 22 .

No way, not anywhere close to the F-22A. EXAMPLE -In one test three F-16Cs with simulated helmet mounted display system (HMDS) and high off bore-sight missiles (HOB). The F-22A does not have the HMDS but does have the HOB missile in the Sidewinder-9X.
When up against four or five F-15Cs or F-16C, the F-22A consistently kills the opponents without the opposition ever seeing the F-22A.
The F-22 'bounced' the flight and shot down the first two F-16s and was in position to kill the third F-16 and they both fired at each other simultaneously! So, all four fighters were deemed shot down. One of many big reasons F-22 pilots want the HMDS/HOB missiles but, the F-22A is not scheduled to get the HMDS!

Originally Posted by master

does it have high speed similar to advanced fighters .can someone please tell me an overall about the f 16 , is it a good fighter for nowadays . or it is old beacause of the advanced fighters .

No, the F-16C does not have the acceleration, maneuverability, or capability at high altitude to operate like the new fighters have. It is as old as all the other 4th generation fighters (aerial combat wise), it is 'on par' with all of those fighters. From what F-16 pilots have said, their plane is better in most ways than the other fighters of that era and a little worst in others. The winning pilot is the one who was able to force the fight to the advantage of his fighter.

There was an interview with a female F-22A pilot excitedly talks about flying her F-22A at 60,000-ft at 800-kts all while pulling "5G's"!! One thing about the F-22A, it is an assassin. It uses its high speed of Mach 1.5+ to quickly approach a target fighter, keep its high altitude advantage and fire missiles at its opponent. An F-22A approaches its opponent that is flying between 30Kft to 40Kft knowing at 60K-ft his missile has a 50% range increase because the missile is headed downward, while the opponent's missile's range is cut by at least 30%, because it must travel upward!

Reference Articles:
A POSTINGS ON "F-16.NET" FROM AN F-16C PILOT -By "VprWzl" (Note)
"F-22 Raptor speed"
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=P...ghlight=#77780 __ Pg #5
VprWzl, is an F-16C pilot who wrote this piece about his flight's encounter with one F-22A.

"Raptors wield 'unfair' advantage at Red Flag" (An RAF F-15C exchange pilot speaks of his encounter with the F-22A.)
http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041831

"The Well-Dressed Raptor Pilot Practical Aircrew Apparel Has Come A Long Way" (Advances in the design of "G" suits.)
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archi...ort/index.html

No way, not anywhere close to the F-22A. EXAMPLE -In one test three F-16Cs with simulated helmet mounted display system (HMDS) and high off bore-sight missiles (HOB). The F-22A does not have the HMDS but does have the HOB missile in the Sidewinder-9X.
When up against four or five F-15Cs or F-16C, the F-22A consistently kills the opponents without the opposition ever seeing the F-22A.
The F-22 'bounced' the flight and shot down the first two F-16s and was in position to kill the third F-16 and they both fired at each other simultaneously! So, all four fighters were deemed shot down.

For me, it just seems to be an advertisment and propaganda trick. There is no such thing as `universal` solution, and the main advantage of F-22 is its stealth. I do not think F-22 is much better in dogfifgt than other jets with comparable dimensions, engine power and weight, as in general there is no more secrets of science of aerodynamics left, and stealth plays no role in dogfight.

I believe F-22 has certain advantages during long- and medium range air battle, when opponents are out of each visual contact and must rely on radar technologies to detect enemy plane and take an aim on it. However, when distance between fighters decreases until visual detection is possible, F-22 loses its advantages. I would like to see commander, who will risk to send F-22s in dogfight when this role can bet done not worse by cheaper and more affordable to loss 4th generation jets.

Originally Posted by Supostat

For me, it just seems to be an advertisment and propaganda trick. There is no such thing as `universal` solution, and the main advantage of F-22 is its stealth. I do not think F-22 is much better in dogfifgt than other jets with comparable dimensions, engine power and weight.

You need to do more investigating. That piece by "VprWzl" is not unique among pilots who face the F-22, whether they are Su-27s, MiG-29s, F-15s or, F-16s. Most people think stealth is the major selling point... it is not it is just a 'handle' that most people can relate to! Its acceleration is so far above current fighters, it is not even comparable.
When the F-15A Streak Eagle (a purposely modified pre-production F-15A) that set eight the "time to climb" records in the early 1970s, used the Rutowski curve or profile to establish the records. The Rutowski profile is where the F-15 climbs to the mid-thirties in altitude, descend to pick up speed and pass through the high drag transonic speed region then, climb to set the records. An fully operational F-22A took-off and climbed straight up, not leveling off until it got past 60K-ft. The F-22's rate of climb exceeded the F-15 Streak Eagle's after the F-15 past through the transonic region and was climbing straight up! The F-22A is not just a F-15 or F-16 on steroids... it is a whole new animal.
Stealth is nice but super-cruise allows it to enter the battle space kill and leave with little chance of being retaliated against.

The only people who want the WVR -furball, are the air forces which have large quantities of low tech fighters, like the Warsaw Pact did. (SEE NOTE) NATO developed tactics to avoid engagements of more than 4V4 back in the 1970s. As the combat over the Bekaa Valley and PGW#1 showed the tactics worked.
NOTE:
The USAF did testing in the early 1970s (AIMVAL/ACEVAL) and found, that while the F-15A killed the F-5 Freedom Fighter 64:0 in 1V1 combat, as the numbers increased the F-15's kill ratio came down. When the encounter was 32V32, the F-15's kill ratio drops to 2:1! The unseen shooter makes almost all the kills against the F-15s. The furball makes nice movies but, air forces want lopsided victories. These only come with small numbers of fighters in an encounter.

Originally Posted by Supostat

as in general there is no more secrets of science of aerodynamics left, and stealth plays no role in dogfight.

INCORRECT, there are many things being implemented on the new fighters that allow them to maneuver in ways previous aircraft could not. The F-22A for example, is designed so the hot spots created by air friction are on the upper portions of the wings, stablators and, the intakes are designed so the hot spots can not be seen from in front or below the F-22. The only exception is the 45° cone below and behind the tail of the F-22.
Stealth and super-cruise plays the part of bringing the element of surprise back to aerial combat. The situational awareness the F-22's avionics provides the pilot with a view of the battle space never before seen. The pilot does not have to try and figure out what is going on from the information presented on several displays. The pilot is then free to concentrate on the tactics they want to employ. The F-22 has one display that shows all the data he needs to attack while another to display has all the information the pilot needs for the defense of the fighter. The pilot can program the displays to show whatever information the pilot wants.

Originally Posted by Supostat

when distance between fighters decreases until visual detection is possible, F-22 loses its advantages.

WRONG again, having the altitude and speed advantage provides the F-22 with energy its opponents don't have and only wish to have. When opponents are limited in their energy, the F-22A will still have plenty. Being able to see the F-22 does not mean your weapons can lock-on to the F-22. You can't attack when your weapons can't lock onto a potential target.
If the F-22A has so much expensive needless technology, why is it all 4.5 generation aircraft are trying to employ as much of this technology as possible within their budgets?

Originally Posted by Supostat

I would like to see commander, who will risk to send F-22s in dogfight when this role can bet done not worse by cheaper and more affordable to loss 4th generation jets.

Why have the F-22 perform combat the F-15s and F-16s can do? As chief test pilot Craig Penrise of the Typhoon fighter said in an interview, in an attack the USAF and RAF are working together, the F-22A would be sent in before the attack starts because of its unique abilities to be over enemy territory and stay undetected. As the Typhoons escort the attack package, enemy interceptors will rise to meet the attack. The F-22s will attack the interceptors shortly after take-off before they can obtain any energy. The interceptor's organized attack will be broken and the Typhoons will make short work on the disorganized efforts of the interceptors.

Aircraft has to be constantly upgraded and revised, especially with all the advancing, and difficult technology it has. Aircrafts there are only a few years old can become obsolete in a few years, so even if it's a good aircraft, way outdated.

Originally Posted by AVON

Stealth is nice but super-cruise allows it to enter the battle space kill and leave with little chance of being retaliated against.

I review some materials and found two more planes with supersonic cruise speeds:
- MiG-29 - 1250 km/h;
- MiG-31 - 2400 km/h.

Being able to see the F-22 does not mean your weapons can lock-on to the F-22. You can't attack when your weapons can't lock onto a potential target.

F-22 still have its heat signature, especially if enemy approaches it from the rear. So, there won't be real problems to lock a heat-guided weapons on it.

Low pulse radars (such as those used by WW2 era sets) and ingenious planning (along with ancient SA-3 missiles fired at short range) defeated the stealth of the F-117, which mind you, is stealthier than the F-22. Don't have so much faith in it, it has already been beaten by Museum piece technology.

Originally Posted by Supostat

I review some materials and found two more planes with supersonic

cruise speeds:
- MiG-29 - 1250 km/h;
- MiG-31 - 2400 km/h.

CORRECTION: they can go supersonic but, they can not supercruise. NASA defines supercruise as being able to go supersonic using no more than 95% of the engine's power, with no use of the afterburner!
The F-4, F-15 MiG-21, Mig-25, MiG-29, Mirage 2000, etc. can go supersonic but, need afterburners to do so. Afterburners give a plane about 50% increase in power with a 100% increase in fuel consumption! When in a fighter (say the F-14A) is on a long patrol, at 22,000-ft (6,000-m) 250-mph (400-kph)... the TF-30 engines consumes fuel at the rate of 2,200-lbs (≈1,000-kg) per engine/per hour! That is economical flying for the F-14A, increase any of the parameters and you increase the fuel consumption.
The F-22A, Rafale, Typhoon and, now the Sukhoi PAK-FA T-50 all can supercruise, to different levels of speed. This translates into being able to consume less fuel, therefore more range yet, still have the speed entering the dogfight. No afterburner means the engine runs at a lower temperature and have a smaller IR signature.
In testing back in the early 1970s that a fighter traveling a speeds above Mach 1.4 has a small chance of being shot down compared to subsonic fighters. Supercruise and some levels of stealth bring the element of surprise back into aerial combat.

Originally Posted by AVON

Being able to see the F-22 does not mean your weapons can lock-on to the F-22. You can't attack when your weapons can't lock onto a potential target.

Yes but, the heat signature will be far smaller because these new fighters will be traveling at supersonic speeds without the heat of afterburners! Because your IR or RF detection equipment can detect one of these new super-fighters in the distance does not mean the seeker of the missile can detect the target until it gets close to it. If the missile was launched and the launch aircraft turned to engage other targets, if accurate updates are not provided to the missile... if the target has maneuvered it could be out of the engagement window by the time the missile approaches the interception point.
This ability to escape 'engagement zones' radically increases the fighter's ability to survive. An F-22A supercruising at Mach 1.7, 20,000-ft or more above the launch plane, has a very small danger zone from being hit by air to missiles. Traveling at Mach 1.4 or higher and having an altitude advantage means you would need early detection to get close enough to launch your missiles and have a chance to hit the F-22.
This is why the F-22A has unusual specs such as having the ability to supercruise at Mach 1.4, flying level with its nose pitched up at 20°! This hides the F-22s IR signature at its maximum. Its greatest vulnerability is the 45° cone at the exhaust nozzles.

Originally Posted by Czin

Low pulse radars (such as those used by WW2 era sets) and ingenious

planning (along with ancient SA-3 missiles fired at short range) defeated the stealth of the F-117, which mind you, is stealthier than the F-22. Don't have so much faith in it, it has already been beaten by Museum piece technology.

The F-117 was shot down on the fourth day of a seventy-three air campaign. The USAF got arrogant, careless and, sent the F-117s into the same target area three nights in a row. The commanders of the Serbian AD figured the F-117s were penetrating between two fixed radar sights at approximately the same time of each night. So on the fourth day the Serbian AD moved a mobile SAM site in the gap between the two fixed sights. That night at a time shortly before they anticipated the F-117, they turned on the mobile radar. A few minutes later, the F-117 flew almost directly over the mobile radar. Once detected and while being tracked the F-117 was easy to shoot down. After that, the USAF varied the F-117's routes to and from the target and bombing times and no more F-117s were shot down.
Considering the media circus at the F-117 wreckage sight logically.... do you really think the Serbian Air Defense shot down two more F-117s and did not invite any press? HELL NO!
By the way, the F-22A is more stealthy than the F-117 by a factor of more than ten.

will the jsf be able to supercruise?