Bulldog - your Duncan Hunter looks good to me, although as an outside I guess I should not interfere. But those attitudes appeal to me.
'On Israel' thread reminded me:-

They asked me a question.

Which was this
Why do the Israelis
Constantly fight the Arabs
And their cohorts

I replied
With a question

Which was this

Why does the little David
Always
Ride out
To meet
The colossus
Goliath
Well
If you were an Israeli
And you considered
Their problem

Which is this

If the Arabs
Stop firing
The battle ends
But
If the Israelis
Stop firing

Israel ends

What would you do



They ignored my question
c.2007.
.

Too right mate.

I didn't know much about D.Hunter. So I read up on him. Basically he wishes a continuation of the Bush Administration. His policies are almost Identical to those of Bush and in a few examples even more extreme.

http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/Duncan_Hunter.htm (from bulldogg)

For example:

Anti Abortion
Anti Stem Cell Research
Wishes to Make Patriot Act permanent
Anti-Affirmative Action
Pro-Flag Descreation
Heavily Pro-Business
Pro-Religious Right
Pro Oil industry (including the highly controversial Bush-Cheney National Energy Policy).
Strongly anti-environment
Wishes to withdraw from WTO
Anti-Unversal Healthcare\ Strongly pro HMO/Pharmaceutical companies
Supports the Bush plan of spying on US citizens without oversight
Strongly anti Union
Pro tax cuts for millionaires death-tax/estate tax/income/inheritance
Against NET neutrality

I think the last 8 years of the far-right extremist rule has been more then long enough. The last thing the US needs is George W. Bush III. If the GOP wants any chance to keep the White House (which is already there are some very ominous signs regardless who is the candidate) they'll need someone who will bring the party back toward the center from the far right. Right now, that means Guiliani or Romney.

If they try and run a Bush clone the Clinton Steamroller is going to run them right over...

Sorry to interupt, but even taking into account the slant on mmarsh's
list of issues, that still doesn't appear to me to represent an extremist view. Very pragmatic and no nonsense, yes, but that is the necessity of defence these days. Since when, in America, is a pro religious approach described as extreme ? And to have concerns regarding the holocaust of generations of unborn babes ? This is now considered exteme? Don't go down our route (Europe/Britain) guys. Don't be led by the Chatterati.
Sorry - I'll butt out.

PS. A neutral board is no-man's board.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

Sorry to interupt, but even taking into account the slant on mmarsh's
list of issues, that still doesn't appear to me to represent an extremist view. Very pragmatic and no nonsense, yes, but that is the necessity of defence these days. Since when, in America, is a pro religious approach described as extreme ? And to have concerns regarding the holocaust of generations of unborn babes ? This is now considered exteme? Don't go down our route (Europe/Britain) guys. Don't be led by the Chatterati.
Sorry - I'll butt out.

PS. A neutral board is no-man's board.

Dell Boy

Slant? There is no slant. That is his voting record in the US House of Representatives. Check the source if you don't believe me.

And It is an extremist view because almost none of the issues that Duncan Hunter endorses are in the American mainstream (nor I suspect in the British Mainstream either). They are almost all either fringe or special-interest issues, and they are the same issues that our current, and very unpopular president supports. Bush has got in heaps of trouble for placing Special\Fringe Interests ahead of the American mainstream.

The religious right in America are extremists. Some people consider them more of a cult than a religious organization. Groups like the Christian Coalition and Focus on the Family are a small but very vocal voice in American politics. Try as they might, they DO NOT represent Mainstream America. They push the most radical agenda in American politics despite the fact that the overwhelming majority (Including most other Christians) find them abhorrent. Their agenda includes racism, homophobia, forced religious indoctrination, intolerance to other religions (Especially Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics and Mormons) and to people who don't share their political views. They have been known to use violence and terrorism to get their agenda across. Sometimes the similarities between them and al-Qaeda is frightening similar.

So yes, they are extremists.

And by the way, if you're against Abortion your entitled to that opinion, but to equate abortion to the Holocaust is both stupid and insensitive. That's precisely the type of nonsense that gets one labeled as an 'extremist' in the US.

mmarsh

first let me assure you, friend, that I did not aim to infer that you were slanting that list. I was merely pointing out that the list used was one of obvious negative slant - it was not FOR the guy in any way, was it; neither could it be called neutral.

Secondly, as a non-american, I would not wish to as as offensive as to argue your country's internal politics with you. But I would say it gets up my nose when I hear The President of America receiving abuse here in the UK. So I must leave such matters with you, out of respect.

However, that does not qualify you to refer to me as stupid for my description of the massacre of millions of unborn babes so far, for the sake of convenience or contraception. Of course it has been a holocaust of a much larger scale, and I probably have greater knowledge of holocaust than yourself, although I am prepared to stand corrected. I do not belittle the WW11 holocaust in any way in making my point.

Just how would you describe what has been dealt these innocents?

My view is not drawn from religious ideology, but from a humanitarian
point of view, and by use of the brain I try to use from time to time.
The question is not one of rocket science, is it. One does not have to be Albert Cushing Crehore to work it out. Only denial stands in the way.

It is good, I believe, not to label those who do not agree with you an extremist; yes, I do mean me. The cap does not fit.

Having said that, my original reply was not of personal intent, and as it
happens, Bill Clinton had my full support as President of America. As I see it, when the election is over, the people of America have spoken, and that is good enough for me. I would not wish to argue your internal politics, it would be inappropriate. Thank you kindly for your attention.

Sir

I never once referred to you as stupid. What I said was your equating the abortion issue (which is legal in most western countries) with the Holocaust (which violated every law of humanity conceivable) as a stupid comparison and inappropriate. That was not an insult, I stand by my comment.

As I said, you are entitled to your pro-life views, and I won't get into a who-knows-how-much-about-the-holocaust debate with you, but I will tell you that my information comes from my grandfather, who as a POW had the rather unfortunate experience of being sent to a forced labor camp inside Germany. My Grandmother and Greatuncle witnessed friends and collegues being arrested by the Gestapo, most of which were never seen again. So when you try and use 'holocaust' to justify your views on a totally unrelated political issue you insult those who actually witnessed or survived it, and making such statements won't help your cause either. If you didnt like my reaction, then I would suggest that to choose your words more carefully next time.

As for the rest,

Foreigners are entitled to criticize the US government. We Americans greatly enjoy criticizing the Governments of other countries (including the UK on occasion), so its only fair for non-Americans to criticize ours, espicially right now when its deserved. The USA is not some isolated island, some of the decisions we make WILL impact people of other countries in positive\negative ways. Just look at the mess the invasion of Iraq caused. So why shouldn't other people say something?

I agree its best not to use labels, but when a minority of people are willing to use whatever means necessary to force the majority into accepting their views, it is unavoidable. That is even true when the cause they fight is just, such as Abolitionists like John Brown.

Incidentally if you liked Bill Clinton, you will hate Duncun Hunter. They are polar opposites.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

Just how would you describe what has been dealt these innocents?

Is Abortion up to 24 weeks still Legal in England?

mmarsh Sir - We must agree to disagree here. Firstly, you used the word stupid. Secondly, I never suggested that I was pro-life or that that was my cause. My view is perfectly straight forward and with no slant - generations of Americans, among others, have had their lives snuffed out for reasons which amount to convenience or contraception, excepting, of course, those of extreme circumstance of suffering, with which I put aside my objections. Those are the cold facts, they are staring you in the face.
This amounts to an even greater toll than that of the holocaust, horrific as that was. I am simply expressing my opinion on behalf of those kids. I have never become involved in the debate before, but have long held my personal view; where are the babies rights.

I know this is most uncomfortable, but we have to face it and come to terms with it, regardless of the association of the 'extremists' to whom you refer. Do you refer to anyone who speaks of immigration control as a racist?

Right, now I am pleased to hear that you listened to your grandfather.
I admire and share his views and yours on this issue, and if you were to describe the holocaust as an issue of mine you would be right on the button.

I happened to be here at the time. In 1965, on a business trip to Warsaw, I was unexpectedly taken for a visit to Auschwitz. I cried there.
I also had relatives who were first into Belsen , as soldiers at the end of the war, and of course was around when all our Tommies came home with their accounts. Around 1950 I was in Germany myself, as a kid of 16 or so.

OK, here is the pay-off. Just a few of years ago the Auschwitz records
revealed that over 100 of my family (my wonderful Grandma's side) perished in that camp. They were basically tulip growers in Holland, and some had been visiting my Grandma here when war was declared, and hurried back to their homeland.

The American soldiers who I knew when they were posted here in WW11
saved me from the same fate, obviously, and although I was completely unaware of such matters, except that my homes had been destroyed by bombs, I have been forever grateful , and I have urged every Englishman to remember who the US people have been to us. Here, we must always stand with America.

Know your friends, I say.
mmarsh, I thank you for your attitude towards The Holocaust, you and I have that much in common.

My concern, not held as an activist, you must understand, is that abortion may eventually stand in history as an even larger stain on humanity.
And denial will have been the culprit. In a world which holds concerns regarding the destruction of insects and rats, we blithely roll on murdering babies.

I hold my personal opinion, you are entitled to yours. I have laid mine before you.

Originally Posted by Gator

Is Abortion up to 24 weeks still Legal in England?

Off the cuff, I could not tell you, but whatever it is, it is far too high.
At least in the USA you give the matter some consideration. Here our doctors are only just now awakening .